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Post by martin on Aug 26, 2016 17:46:26 GMT
On the Society of Ancient website a player recently posted that his interpretation of victory conditions was that if at the end of a bound the result is 4-4 then that's yer lot, game over, draw declared .....anyone else share this version of the 'truth'??
As far as I know no-one on the regular UK circuit, apart from one (you might say slightly isolated) organiser int far north, has gone down this route.
What's the world view, ladies and gentlemen ??
Martin
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Post by Tony Aguilar on Aug 26, 2016 17:51:02 GMT
My understanding is that it goes into sudden-death mode.
Paraphrasing:
The first side that at the end of any bound has lost 4 elements not including Scythed Chariots, Hordes, camp followers or denizens loses the battle if it has also more elements than the enemy has lost.
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Post by menacussecundus on Aug 26, 2016 18:50:23 GMT
I saw the discussion, Martin, and, while my personal preference is for the slaughter to go on, I suppose rules can be read that once the body-count reaches 4 all, you call it a day.
I know that under some other ancients rule-sets, it is possible for both armies to break at the same moment and I guess a 4-4 draw would be the DBA equivalent of this. That said, I do wonder how many historical instances there are of this actually happening.
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Post by timurilank on Aug 26, 2016 18:52:20 GMT
On the Society of Ancient website a player recently posted that his interpretation of victory conditions was that if at the end of a bound the result is 4-4 then that's yer lot, game over, draw declared .....anyone else share this version of the 'truth'?? As far as I know no-one on the regular UK circuit, apart from one (you might say slightly isolated) organiser int far north, has gone down this route. What's the world view, ladies and gentlemen ?? Martin On this side of the channel.. Under tournament conditions I can imagine such a result happening due to time allowed per game.
But, I concur, play continues until “one side loses more elements”.
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Post by Simon on Aug 26, 2016 19:24:07 GMT
I also thought you kept on going unless timed out by specific tournament rules.
Cheers
Simon
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Post by txwargamer on Aug 26, 2016 20:09:08 GMT
We always continue to the golden goal.
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Post by Cromwell on Aug 26, 2016 21:06:15 GMT
I always thought it was sudden death.  |
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Post by bob on Aug 27, 2016 14:07:37 GMT
Tony has quoted the exact rule, and highlighted the phrase, "has also lost more such elements than the enemy." How can anyone possibly think that it's over at a 4 - 4 tie. At that point neither side has lost more!
After that it's not quite sudden death in that the first player to lose an element beyond four loses the game. Complete bounds are still played, not stopped at the first loss, during the bound. At the end of a bound the losses are counted, and a player who has lost four and more than his opponent, loses. It's possible during a bound after both have lost four, that one player loses another element, and then the other player loses another element, so at the end of the bound neither player has lost more. Then play another bound..
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Post by txwargamer on Aug 27, 2016 14:46:07 GMT
Tony has quoted the exact rule, and highlighted the phrase, "has also lost more such elements than the enemy." How can anyone possibly think that it's over at a 4 - 4 tie. At that point neither side has lost more! After that it's not quite sudden death in that the first player to lose an element beyond four loses the game. Complete bounds are still played, not stopped at the first loss, during the bound. At the end of a bound the losses are counted, and a player who has lost four and more than his opponent, loses. It's possible during a bound after both have lost four, that one player loses another element, and then the other player loses another element, so at the end of the bound neither player has lost more. Then play another bound.. Thanks Bob and the way you stated it is actually how we play. |
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Post by sheffmark on Aug 30, 2016 12:45:56 GMT
Tony has quoted the exact rule, and highlighted the phrase, "has also lost more such elements than the enemy." How can anyone possibly think that it's over at a 4 - 4 tie. At that point neither side has lost more! After that it's not quite sudden death in that the first player to lose an element beyond four loses the game. Complete bounds are still played, not stopped at the first loss, during the bound. At the end of a bound the losses are counted, and a player who has lost four and more than his opponent, loses. It's possible during a bound after both have lost four, that one player loses another element, and then the other player loses another element, so at the end of the bound neither player has lost more. Then play another bound.. I suppose if you wanted to be picky you could say that the rules don't actually say you should continue after you get to 4-4! Maybe the thinking is.... when you've got to 4 elements you've lost. If the other person has also got to four, then they've lost as well! As you've both lost, that's a draw!!!  Though must admit I've never heard of this before and the only games I've fought in which were draws were due to competition games timing out. |
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Post by bob on Aug 30, 2016 14:57:24 GMT
There is no "pickiness" to it. The rules explicitly state who loses the game.
"The first side that at the end of any bound has now lost a total of 4 elements not including Scythed Chariots, Hordes, camp followers or denizens and has also lost more such elements than the enemy, has lost the battle"
What part of "more such elements" is being picky. A player has lost the game if at the end of a bound he has lost four elements And more such elements than the enemy. A game cannot end unless one player has lost four elements and MORE than his opponent. Thus a game cannot end if both players have lost 4.
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Post by ronisan on Sept 1, 2016 11:28:43 GMT
Hi everybody,
we play it like "bob" ! That's the way it's told in the rules.
Cheers,
Ronald.
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Post by mellis1644 on Sept 1, 2016 13:12:01 GMT
We do the same. The only draws come from running out of time - which is rare in our games. We have even had games carry on at 5-5 with vexing dual loss in a bound.  |
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Post by spratzman on Sept 26, 2016 7:39:42 GMT
Hi everyone
I would like to draw your attention to Sue Laflin-Barker's Start Ancient Wargaming Using DBA3.0 Page 74 which states in part Romans lost a total of 4 Germans lost a total of 4 Since neither side had lost more, the battle continued. The next losses would determine the outcome. I think this pretty well sums it up.
Spratzman
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Post by martin on Sept 26, 2016 8:51:36 GMT
Hi everyone I would like to draw your attention to Sue Laflin-Barker's Start Ancient Wargaming Using DBA3.0 Page 74 which states in part Romans lost a total of 4 Germans lost a total of 4 Since neither side had lost more, the battle continued. The next losses would determine the outcome. I think this pretty well sums it up. Spratzman Thanks, Spratzman. Hadn't seen Sue's book, but as you say it pretty much confirms it. We've always have played to a win (unless in timed competition games), but a player on the Society of Ancients website suggested he had drawn at 4-4, and another agreed with his interpretation. Still not sure if he's convinced....but there's no helping some  M |
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