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Post by greedo on Feb 25, 2019 6:17:01 GMT
Still newish to 3.0 vs 2.2. This came up this evening..
2Ps now don't have to worry about being overlapped as this does not give them a -1, so stick 'em out front of the heavies where they belong  GREAT.
But what about being flanked? Are 2Ps still immune to a -1 then?
My definition of overlapped is where two elements are in front corner to corner contact but NOT front to flank contact. My definition of flanked is front to flank (with front corners touching) contact.
Am I right here?
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Post by paulhannah on Feb 25, 2019 7:22:46 GMT
2Ps now don't have to worry about being overlapped as this does not give them a -1, so stick 'em out front of the heavies where they belong GREAT. But what about being flanked? Are 2Ps still immune to a -1 then? You have it correct. Psiloi when flanked do indeed suffer a -1 modifier, but not when simply overlapped. That no-overlaps rule for Ps (and SCh too) in "Purple" is sometimes hard to remember for those of us who played DBA-2 for so long. But I really like it, as it allows Psiloi to be out in front of a battleline to harass the advance of enemy foot. (Just watch out horsies.) |
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Post by menacussecundus on Feb 25, 2019 7:51:08 GMT
As you say, Ps do not get a -1 in close combat if they are overlapped front corner to front corner. However, if they are overlapped side edge to side edge - e.g where friends have been recoiled in close combat and the enemy element has pursued - then they do suffer a -1.
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Post by Les1964 on Feb 25, 2019 12:13:54 GMT
if they are overlapped side edge to side edge - then they do suffer a -1. Page 25 , Figure 16 c . |
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Post by greedo on Feb 25, 2019 14:14:23 GMT
if they are overlapped side edge to side edge - then they do suffer a -1. Page 25 , Figure 16 c . That’s a wrinkle I had not considered. Thanks! |
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Post by paulhannah on Feb 25, 2019 17:14:35 GMT
That’s a wrinkle I had not considered. Thanks! And a delightfully subtle wrinkle I'm sure I forget at times too. |
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Post by primuspilus on Feb 25, 2019 21:36:23 GMT
Remember a single Ps is vulnerable to being hardflanked by HI after a recoil. If the Ps has Wb or Kn buddies ready to pounce, it is less of an issue.
One of the reasons I like the idea of the first Ps or LH not counting as a loss.
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Post by greedo on Feb 25, 2019 22:42:08 GMT
Remember a single Ps is vulnerable to being hardflanked by HI after a recoil. If the Ps has Wb or Kn buddies ready to pounce, it is less of an issue. One of the reasons I like the idea of the first Ps or LH not counting as a loss. I like this idea too. Nobody should lose a battle because a few skirmishers dispersed... It would make a decent counterbalance to the 2x lost for 1st deep unit lost rule. |
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Post by medievalthomas on Feb 25, 2019 22:56:26 GMT
I lobbied hard for Ps to count as only 1/2 element if lost but in this case I lost.
As to the overlap question lack of a proper terminology makes this subtlety hard to spot. "Friction" side overlaps or Hard Flanks still count -1 but not just corner to corner. I would have prefered no Overlaps counting as easier and closer to actual effect (Hard Flanks would still of course convert Recoiled to Destroyed).
TomT
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Post by paddy649 on Feb 26, 2019 7:39:13 GMT
First Ps or LH lost counts as zero rule has a lot of appeal.
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Post by primuspilus on Feb 26, 2019 18:19:31 GMT
Yeah, we found that needing to kill 8 Skythian LH was a bit much. But needing to kill 5? Well now Cyrus is rightfully reluctant to pursue Skythian armies all the way into the Don-Bas! ...
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Post by primuspilus on Feb 26, 2019 18:21:33 GMT
Yeah, we found that needing to kill 8 Skythian LH was a bit much. But needing to kill 5? Well now Cyrus is rightfully reluctant to pursue Skythian armies all the way into the Don-Bas! ...
Also, it is nice to have "something" extra for those armies that have one Ps or one LH. By the way, even though it doesn't count toward winning and losing, it still does, because losing 1/12 of your real estate coverage in a battle always hurts!
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Post by greedo on Feb 26, 2019 18:37:49 GMT
I hadn't thought about the first LH = 0 elements lost. I always figured Skirmishers were expected to disperse once they had done their job, but LH seem more "troop like".
However, if people are into it.
One question: If I have a 2LH AND a 2Ps element in my army, do BOTH of them count as zero elements lost or is it purely "the first LH OR Ps counts as zero elements lost"?
Obviously this is a proposed rule change, not a question on a existing rule.
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Post by medievalthomas on Feb 26, 2019 19:41:07 GMT
Not in favor of LH counting 1/2 (at least not yet). Ps a different matter.
TomT
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Post by primuspilus on Feb 27, 2019 0:13:14 GMT
Not in favor of LH counting 1/2 (at least not yet). Ps a different matter. TomT How many armies do you have with just a single LH, Tom? Recall, guys, LH fleeing even into a paltry river, or off any board edge. Now those of you who play on big boards can do this all day. But those of us who play on 2' recommended boards (for a variety of reasons) this is a bit more of an issue. Simply telling us to move the bigger board (and on another thread I outline why I don't believe in the bigger boards) or to lug aorund two boards isn't going to fly. So I support allowing the first LH/Ps to not count. LH are super vulnerable to other mounted... And Arty. And 4Ax ... And 3Bd... And of course bowfire... |
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GREAT.
