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Post by louien on Oct 9, 2018 3:49:14 GMT
One cool thing about DBA is so much is determined in the initial setup.
Hello,
I have set up a starting scenario of Anglo-Danish vs Norman battle to learn and practice. I have started with a very basic set up. The brown is a gentle hill, the green ovals are woods, and the orange squares are ploughed fields. I present to you the stating map.
The attacker has chosen to attack from the southern side of the map. I have done the deployment of troops. Based on this please provide feedback of what could be done differently.
Thank you
-Luis
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Post by arnopov on Oct 10, 2018 11:48:22 GMT
Main problem for the Anglo-Danish is that Kn are a bit better in the open than Sp (the DBM simulator gives ~55/45 at best, it gets worse for longer lines). Another issue is that the Norman has these three 3Bw, which are a lot faster in terrain than anything the AD has, Ps excepted.
So I sort of understand what the AD is trying to do here: set up a long line of Sp vs Kn, with an overlap at the wood, use the Bd/Ps to prevent the 3x3Bw to turn that flank. It's a bit passive, and looks like a 40/60 plan to me (as the Norman I would put ky Kn* on column15 (full right) for a 4QK-3 on the last spear.
So you have to try something else.
Have you had a look at allies (I would probably get rid of 2Bd+Ps)?
Vikings brings a 4Bw, and littoral. Very attractive, allows you to be active, and have something fun to look forward to.
PFS bring a LH and a Cv. Now, you dominate the table edge angainst Kn! That's obviously an invitation to the Norman to bring some 3Bw there, but that's not necessarily a bad thing if they get in range of Sp or the 3Pk.
You might also want to consider "non-standard" terrain, WW, Rv, BUA (Fort!), and you must use a road to symmetrise the board.
I personnaly would go for: Medium WW (Max 3BW), Big Fort (6x3), Rv, Rd. And the viking ally.
And put the fort as far in the middle as possible (6BW from base). River // to WW // to road.
But that might not fit your style.
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Post by Tony Aguilar on Oct 10, 2018 12:39:38 GMT
Always , always, always use a road if possible for the simple reason that it gives you attacker ONLY TWO choice of board to come in on. Oh, did I mention to always use a road?  |
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Post by louien on Oct 10, 2018 15:03:07 GMT
Arnopov & Tony,
Thanks for the replies. That is exactly the insight I am seeking; it is appreciated.
While I know I should use a road and a built up area (BUA). I wanted to start at the beginning one may say. With the simplest of terrain and setups. With a few tweaks I will run through this battle and see the results. One beauty f DBA 3.0 is the speed of play.
A few terms I am unfamiliar with are these correct.
PFS = Pre Feudal Scots? WW = Waterway?
Arnopov in reference to your terrain setup recommendation of "River // to WW // to road"; do you have a visual of how it would look on the board.
Thanks again
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Post by timurilank on Oct 10, 2018 15:43:05 GMT
Arnopov & Tony,
Thanks for the replies. That is exactly the insight I am seeking; it is appreciated.
While I know I should use a road and a built up area (BUA). I wanted to start at the beginning one may say. With the simplest of terrain and setups. With a few tweaks I will run through this battle and see the results. One beauty f DBA 3.0 is the speed of play.
A few terms I am unfamiliar with are these correct.
PFS = Pre Feudal Scots? WW = Waterway?
Arnopov in reference to your terrain setup recommendation of "River // to WW // to road"; do you have a visual of how it would look on the board.
Thanks again
Last year I re-worked my DBA terrain with a goal to make pieces multi-functional. At my blog you will find photos of each terrain types. You can find each from the introduction page.
dbagora.blogspot.com/2017/09/dba-terrain-by-type.html
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Post by Haardrada on Oct 10, 2018 21:24:45 GMT
I was wondering why the Norman player had not considered the Cav or Dismounted Kn options?...especially when A Saxon General with hindsight will be out to disrupt the charging Kn with an advantage against Bd and Sp?
As the Saxon General have you considered other terrain options other than plough and woods? You can place BUA as mentioned, but how about a hamlet rather than a fort?The hamlet is rough going and slows down your solid troops...but most of all it negates the QK of the Kn and Bd as well as side support...but also slows his mounted troops to a crawl.
Enclosures,Rough and Boggy have the same effect as they are rough too and can screen frontage or protect flanks.
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Post by arnopov on Oct 10, 2018 21:35:07 GMT
WW first, then 2 possibilities for the Fort, then 4 for the Rv. The exact Rd placement doesn't matter much (well, ideally where you think the norman might want to place the Bw). Just realised that the leftmost river is illegal, should be 1Bw further to the right, but that's the idea anyway.
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Post by louien on Oct 11, 2018 5:22:34 GMT
timurilank, I did read your site Thank you
Haardrada, how would the AD player disrupt the charging Knights? I way I see it the Anglo-Danish have to hunker down and prevent the overlap on the flank.
arnopov, thanks for the image.
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Post by Haardrada on Oct 11, 2018 13:54:17 GMT
louien" said "Haardrada, how would the AD player disrupt the charging Knights? Its not so much that you prevent the charge with rough going....you just take the sting out of it. Any Solid or Mounted elements moving in rough can only move 1Bw and the Kn cannot QK in rough going...fortunatly the Bd can QK Kn in any terrain on a draw, making the Kn at more risk in the hamlet or other rough. The +1 side support does not apply to the Spears though...but your Sp starts at 4-3 vs Kn. This means the Norman player has to go round the rough terrain where your Sp can deploy on a wider frontage as he is "channeled" through the terrain or he has to risk attacking through the rough at lessed odds.
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Post by chaotic on Oct 12, 2018 1:06:05 GMT
Just for fun, I played the Anglo-Danes vs Normans with the terrain as specified. The Anglo-Danes have to play defensively, and by making maximum use of the terrain, so I used the setup in the diagram.
The idea is to engage the knights with the advantage of being uphill, and with your left flank protected by the forest. The psiloi can threaten the bows, supported by blades if the opportunity arises. One or two spears in the forest effectively close that flank, so the knights can't get around the forest. The camp would be better placed on the other side of the forest, but that's where you had it, so I kept it there.
Its important to keep some elements in the second line, because the knights will occasionally break through. However if they are isolated and fighting uphill, you have a very good chance of killing them.
On balance, the Normans still have the advantage, but you can make it very tough for them. Who knows, if you roll enough 6's you might just sneak a win. 
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Post by louien on Oct 12, 2018 3:30:06 GMT
chaotic,
That is a very interesting suggestion given the basic setup of terrain.
Thanks
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