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Post by wyvern on Aug 27, 2018 12:50:49 GMT
This has been bothering me for a while,namely the choice of primer. I have read that a good miniatures painter should always choose white or a light coloured primer. I have tried using grey and white primers, blocking in and using washes and further highlights. I have also used black and built up the colour using progressively lighter shades. In my opinion I can't see much of a difference between the results.My question is do you believe that white/light primers are capable of producing better results, i.e. make the colours "pop" more than when one uses black? I would love to hear your opinions on miniature painting. Cheers, Paul.
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Post by HectorBlackwolf on Aug 27, 2018 21:06:26 GMT
I use black. It makes shading easy and anything not painted is simple black. For 15mm it makes life much easier.
Some light passes through the paint. So, with a white undercoat (in theory) the colors are brighter. I really don't see it myself. But, better painters than I claim it is there. Historical colors are going to be muted anyway, so if the black undercoat dulls things a bit, all the better.
The only problem with black is painting white, yellow, and red. All of white and be solved with a quick coat of medium brown over the black undercoat. I use Vallejo Golden Brown for this purpose.
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Post by paddy649 on Aug 27, 2018 21:46:39 GMT
I base coat to suit the figures and the majority colour they are. My Teutonics were base coated white, Islamic Berbers were base coated black and Mongols will probably get base coated brown. Mediaevals normslly get a black base coat as dry brushing steel gives a really good mail effect.
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Post by wyvern on Aug 27, 2018 21:59:21 GMT
I'm leaning towards black myself and I agree its easier to paint 15mm with black. I also heard somewhere that colours painted over black fade over time but I really don't know if that is a myth or not. The consensus on the internet seems to suggest that white is the way to go but like you said I really can't see any much difference either and I wondered before if it was just me : )
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Post by nangwaya on Aug 27, 2018 23:55:37 GMT
I am a fence sitter. I prime with neutral grey.
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Post by lkmjbc on Aug 28, 2018 0:30:05 GMT
White is simply superior. Check out the battle of Bagradas either in WS&S or my Great Battles of history. The troops are white primed and "stain" painted (some thirty years ago!). They were photoed under bad light and still jump out. My black primed painted troops only look good under very intense light.. something that is only available on painting tables or photo shoots. It never, ever happens in convetion or club games.
I have fought this for years. White primed troops take twice as long to paint...and are more difficult as well.
All my 25s from now on will be white primed. I'm not sure I can bring myself to do so with future 15s...but I should.
Joe Collins
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Post by martin on Aug 28, 2018 2:56:12 GMT
Have done both....struggle with black undercoat, for all the reasons mentioned by others, plus it’s harder to see the details when all is black. One compromise I tried, which worked well, was - undercoat black, then drybrush white. This picks out the details for painting, AND supplies a better base for lighter colours. Martin
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Post by paulisper on Aug 28, 2018 6:14:06 GMT
Have done both....struggle with black undercoat, for all the reasons mentioned by others, plus it’s harder to see the details when all is black. One compromise I tried, which worked well, was - undercoat black, then drybrush white. This picks out the details for painting, AND supplies a better base for lighter colours. Martin With Martin on this one - that’s what I do in the majority of cases P
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Post by davidjconstable on Aug 28, 2018 7:16:34 GMT
I suspect it comes down to personal preference most of the time, both for undercoat and paint.
In the end I went with white using CdA paints, adding brushed on dark Army Painter.
Finishing with matt varnish.
A very big word of warning, I did not like my original armies and was planning on replacing them, so do a limited number of figures at a time, try different undercoat and paints. When happy with your combination, stick to it.
David Constable
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Post by jdesmond on Aug 28, 2018 7:18:25 GMT
I have been using light grey or white primer (depending on what the store had in stock). 2 reasons: First, easier coverage - if you're doing Carthaginians in Spain where half your troops are wearing white... - don't want Imperator Murphy to cause you to need ten coats to make them look right. Second, if you're using spray primer (my application method is to lay out the figures on a scrap-cardboard tray, give them a 1-second sweep spray, turn tray 90 degrees, another 1-second sweeping spray, repeat and repeat, let dry, turn figures over, repeat...) you'll find that the 'areas in shadow' that you _want_ black get missed.
So after priming and double-sided-taping the figures to 'dop sticks', I 'blackline' the figures, then 'paint inside the lines'
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Post by Spitzicles on Aug 28, 2018 11:56:07 GMT
I vary the undercoat depending on what the army is going to look like, or what I want it to look like. So for Greeks, Samnites and Iberians, white or mid grey for brighter colours and because there will be a fair number of white tunics. Arabs and Tibetans and Armenians, who I wanted darker and dirtier, black undercoat. I have a Palmyran army waiting somewhere in the painting queue and I am thinking of undercoating them using mid or light brown, so the shadows may look sandy like the desert they're living in.
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Post by sheffmark on Aug 28, 2018 12:47:00 GMT
White is simply superior. That must mean all my recent troops are inferior. Perhaps I should have posted this on the 'Definition of Superior and Inferior?' thread? Seriously though, I used to paint with white undercoat and then use a black wash at the end to 'dirty' the figures down. Recently I experimented with using a black undercoat and apart from the problem with painted over in red or yellow (I don't find a problem with white) I find it a lot easier. This may be because of age and my eye sight isn't as good as it was but I do find the black allows you to not be as accurate as any crevices you miss are automatically shaded, allowing you to make extensive use of the dry brush technique. Though I suspect it all comes down to a matter of taste and how much effort you want to put in. I'd suggest trying both on the same figures and see which you prefer.
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Post by davidjconstable on Aug 28, 2018 12:57:01 GMT
An alternative to scrap card is to mount on strips of balsawood, with only just enough glue, if turned sideways you can do a fair number on a strip. Mark the units, if doing your main colour as red on 4 figure units use only three colours then do one item on each figure, different each time.
If you are lazy like me then decide on your colours and paint all the army, on warbands in units 4 do every 7th figure, jacket then trousers and repeat all the way through. Save or use first three or four odd colours, break up your routine, say every ninth figure starting with a die role to really mess it up.
It is surprising how quickly you can rough paint jacket and trousers, and you feel you are nearly finished.
David Constable
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Post by goragrad on Aug 28, 2018 13:46:32 GMT
I prime white on new/unpainted figures.
I have gotten pre-primed figures off ebay and elsewhere that were primed black, grey, light brown, and some figures that had been partially sprayed red(!).
With some Parthian light horse that came primed black I went ahead and primed an equal number of unprimed figures white and then painted the a black and a white primed figure with the same colors. Made for a way to vary the shades on the finished miniatures as the difference was noticeable. The same with gray where I had some Indian javelins that came pre-primed.
I use the varnish/stain method to finish to get shading.
As to priming, I prep the figures then glue them (elmers) to a sheet and spray then bake at 250 F to set the paint. Afterwards I pop the figures off and put them in trays. When painting I use alligator clips on the bases to hold the figure while I rotate it - I find strip mounts to be make it harder to get into the areas between figures.
Then it is pick a color and then paint a certain number of shields, trousers/hose, tunics, etc. Unless it is livery or a uniform I try to vary colors and combinations as much as possible (I do do flesh in one fell swoop for the entire group - it is interesting how painting the faces turns the figures into little men...).
As with Martin I find that black primer makes picking out the detail more difficult.
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Post by wyvern on Aug 28, 2018 16:26:30 GMT
Thank you all so far for sharing your tips, it's great to hear how other people approach the whole process.I agree with what Joe said about lighting on a wargames table, you rarely get sufficient lighting to show off all those hours of painstaking work properly.In retrospect I realised that when I put my first army on our kitchen table and found that the lighting we had was actually quite low and I remember being disappointed with the results (I had primed in black).The army lacked something and I was too inexperienced to know what it was.Perhapsw that is indeed where the difference lies; when the light is poor and a whole army is viewed from a distance rather than trying to make a comparison up close between two examples.
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