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Post by greedo on Jul 4, 2018 5:41:14 GMT
Taking a break from the great Ax and Bw debate....
I was thinking about the house rule of designating 1 of your 12 elements to be Superior and 1 of them to be inferior for a bit of variety.
BUT, what are people's definitions of "superior" and "inferior"?
I think of Veteran Legionaries as "Superior" Bd, whereas raw recruits are "inferior" Bd. Spartans are "Superior" Sp. etc.
But does that mean that the superior Bd is more likely to wipe out enemies? OR Does it mean that they are simply less likely to run away.
This would make a difference in how I would house rule S vs I vs O troops. i.e. Offensively S troops get to add 1 when they win, making it more likely that they will double an opponent. Defensively S troops get to add 1 when they lose, making it less likely they will recoil or get doubled. There's also rerolling 2s etc. although that's a bit more defensive.
I prefer the Defensive Superior version. Spartans were less likely to run, as were veterans.
BUT, what about Ps? Why are Baleraic Slingers Superior to just regular slingers? Was it that they were less likely to run, or was it that they were more likely to hit their target at range and rattle incoming heavy infantry?
That strikes me an Offensive Superior version.
What are other Fanaticii's definition of superior vs ordinary vs inferior?
Chris
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Post by primuspilus on Jul 4, 2018 11:56:54 GMT
Greedo, there are many ways people do this. In the 12 element game, giving a blanket +1 seems overpowering. If you do, you may want to have superior troops count as 2 elements if lost.
On the other hand there are more subtle ways, such as +1 to a losing or a winning score, as well as a less powerful approach that is also quite popular: Superior troops MAY reroll a 2 in combat. Inferior troops MUST reroll any 5 in combat.
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Post by greedo on Jul 4, 2018 17:59:34 GMT
Greedo, there are many ways people do this. In the 12 element game, giving a blanket +1 seems overpowering. If you do, you may want to have superior troops count as 2 elements if lost. On the other hand there are more subtle ways, such as +1 to a losing or a winning score, as well as a less powerful approach that is also quite popular: Superior troops MAY reroll a 2 in combat. Inferior troops MUST reroll any 5 in combat. I understand the mechanics of how to do it, but the choice of mechanic will affect how the element performs. Simply adding 1 to cf will both help them from getting beaten/doubled but also increase the chance of beating/doubling their opponent. Refilling 5s and 2s is interesting in a scaled down way. But adding 1 Or subtracting 1 when they are beaten won’t help them win against an opponent but purely affects if they stand firm, recoil, or run. It’s a purely “defensive” version of element grading. So back to my original question: what do people here think of when they think of “superior/inferior” troops? Is it purely how likely they are to run in combat or do you interpret it as being actually BETTER in combat and so more likely to drive off an opponent or rout them in a charge? |
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Post by cleopatra2 on Jul 4, 2018 18:51:32 GMT
I would not apply this concept to DBA, save it for other detailed games such as DBMM and DBR.
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Post by martin on Jul 4, 2018 19:45:06 GMT
I would not apply this concept to DBA, save it for other detailed games such as DBMM and DBR. Absolutely. Martin |
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Post by stevie on Jul 4, 2018 20:53:13 GMT
...unless you are trying to recreate an historical engagement and the current basic tournament rules just doesn’t give you the right results as reported by the ancient historians (such as Hannibal’s victory at Cannae for example?). If DBA is unable to reproduced this battle, how can you be sure that it truly reflects other battles? Is it based on history or is it just a game like Risk? Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018
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IanC
Munifex
Posts: 16 
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Post by IanC on Aug 28, 2018 3:35:34 GMT
I think you're going a out it backwards. Superior troops were those that rolled sixes. Inferior troops were those that rolled ones.
Well trained blades, no matter how well trained, no matter the might of the nation they fought for, were still fodder if they rolled ones on the day, and were not supported by superior battle tactics.
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Post by greedo on Aug 28, 2018 22:14:44 GMT
I think you're going a out it backwards. Superior troops were those that rolled sixes. Inferior troops were those that rolled ones. Well trained blades, no matter how well trained, no matter the might of the nation they fought for, were still fodder if they rolled ones on the day, and were not supported by superior battle tactics. True, but if you were about to watch a battle between a line of Spartan troops, and a line of Ionian Hoplites, who would you put your money on? Non-Spartan troops DID of course beat the Spartans in specific cases (the Thebans spring to mind), but it was considered enough of a "thing", that historians made a note of it. But if I have a battleline of Spartans vs a battleline of Athenians, is it PURE generalship that will win the day or is the Spartan discipline, training etc. going to have any affect on the battle? The Thebans put their BEST troops on the left of their line facing the Spartans WORST troops, and they deep ranked them, so it was partly the general's deployment, and partially which troops were where that granted the Thebans victory (I forget the name of that particular battle...). In DBA, the Thebans get a couple of double ranked Sp to represent the deep formations. But what about the Spartans? How would we represent the "weakest" spartan troops? You could do it by making them 4Ax, or maybe "fast" 4Sp (although that would be a new element), or you could rank 1 of the 4Sp elements as "inferior", giving them a slight disadvantage in combat. These are of course, completely house rules, and not intended to overly complicate things. But for anybody who has dabbled in using Superior vs Inferior troops for some variety, what methods have people found to give good but not overly powerful results? |
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Post by nangwaya on Aug 29, 2018 0:55:20 GMT
It's been a while Greedo, nice to see you back!
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Post by greedo on Aug 29, 2018 3:19:53 GMT
It's been a while Greedo, nice to see you back! Thanks Nangwaya! Nice to be back. We just bought a house so between that and our 2 year old, been sleeping a lot  |
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