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Post by primuspilus on Jul 2, 2018 21:06:44 GMT
I for one, liked the fact that DBA used to allow break offs. This allowed Cannae, IF you had enough PIPs, and were careful about maneuvering. I think that Bd, Pk pursuit is a great idea, but I wonder if banning breaking off was such a good idea?
Breaking off is still risky, and depends on getting good PIP rolls. But it would have been a great way to lure those darned Romans forward into a deadly trap at Cannae?
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Post by nangwaya on Jul 2, 2018 22:40:37 GMT
I have never played any of the earlier versions of DBA.
Can someone explain breaking off and how you would go about it during a game?
Thanks!
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Post by paulhannah on Jul 3, 2018 17:29:30 GMT
Here's how the Break-Off rule read in DBA 2.2.
"A single element tactical move can be used by an element to break-off from enemy in contact with its front, but only if it has no enemy front edge in contact with its or rear and will not change direction or meet either friends it cannot pass through or enemy. The element retire at least 200 paces directly to its rear and ends facing that broken-off from."
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Post by jeffreythancock on Jul 5, 2018 2:28:49 GMT
I wonder why it was removed? Awfully difficult to achieve on a per stand basis without a lot of PIPs. Perhaps bring it back for Cv, LH, Ax, and Ps?
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Post by stevie on Jul 5, 2018 5:21:13 GMT
Why was it removed? Perhaps because it made some tournament games too long and indecisive. Or because Bd and Pk now pursue it makes it too easy to draw them into double overlap positions. Actually, I’m not in favour of bringing it back ( Phil Barker removed it from DBA 3.0 for a reason)...but by achieving it by other means. Mounted already can sort of break-off when they choose to recoil a full base width...providing they are not pursued. And Joe Collins has been playtesting for some time allowing certain foot, such as Ps, 3Ax, and possibly 3Bw as well, to do the same. This recoil a base depth or ‘ evade’ a full base width is of course involuntary and is a result of a combat outcome. But it has the same effect as breaking-off, and at least it’s PIP free.  Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018
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Post by paulhannah on Jul 12, 2018 22:39:32 GMT
The thread does remind me of entertaining tactical move one could do in V-2 when a certain, rare circumstance presented itself. Locally, we called it "The Pomeroy Feigned Flight", after Gary Pomeroy, who first executed this move in our group to our astonished eyes.
Situation: (Again, this is DBA-2.)
Player-A has three friendly Warband elements, all side-by-side, BEGIN a bound in frontal contact with any three pf Player-B's elements, also side-by-side, and of a type which must pursue (e.g. Warbands, Horde, etc.).
Player-A gets at least 2 PIPs, and uses 1 PIP to break-off with his center element, moving it back 200p. Player-B, by rule, advances his center element its own base-depth. Player-A uses his second PIP to make a Subsequent Move with his center Warband back into contact. He resolves that center Close Combat first, since Player-B's element is now overlapped on two sides.
All quite legal, back in the day. And often quite effective. But, as I say, the requisite situation presented itself about as often as a lunar eclipse.
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Post by scottrussell on Jul 15, 2018 7:57:00 GMT
I wonder why it was removed? Awfully difficult to achieve on a per stand basis without a lot of PIPs. Perhaps bring it back for Cv, LH, Ax, and Ps? My recollection was that there was some discussion about limiting it to situations where the breaking off element had a greater move distance that that broken off from. Which made some sense to me. But then the view was that most ancient armies simply lacked the training and discipline to effect the manoeuvre and the result was that it can only happen as an outcome move, as detailed above in respect of mounted troops moving a full base width when recoiled. Scott |
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