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Post by nangwaya on Jun 28, 2018 15:00:30 GMT
I painted up some Italian Condotta 3Kn's to beef up the Albanians, but after reading a comment that Timurilank made on his Storm Within the Empire site about his Wallachians and how he expected them to give the Ottoman's a headache since the Wallachians are a very mobile army, I began to wonder if I should just play the Alabanians as is, and not use the Allied knights?
Just wondering what you tend to do when making up an army.
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Post by felixs on Jun 28, 2018 16:23:07 GMT
I do not use them often, since I do not get to play as much as I would like to. And when I get to play, my gaming partners (and I too, to some degree) want to keep it simple.
They are fun though. I doubt that there are many cases where allies make armies more effective, since allies are harder to move around effectively. But then, I have zero interest in building effective armies.
Try allies, they are fun. And if you lose, you can blame it on them.
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Post by martin on Jun 28, 2018 16:23:46 GMT
Frequently like to field an ally, especially if they bring something useful to the party....favourite is a 'littoral' ally added to an 'arable' base army. Arable can lay a waterway when it suits them, but if the opponent is littoral can avoid doing so. Nice bit of flexibility. EG add Viking ally to many dark age base armies, or Phoenicians to eg Philistines.
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Post by paulhannah on Jun 28, 2018 16:29:38 GMT
In a word... Never.
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Post by timurilank on Jun 28, 2018 17:04:57 GMT
I like using allies and they are frequently appear when doing the historical match ups. Due to their movement limitation however they can remain inert; this is justified as not being paid enough.
One memorable game between the Abbasid and the Baghdad Buyid, Dynastic Kurdish were allied with the Buyid supplying them (2 x 3Kn and 1 x 3Wb) the need punch to beat the Abbasid.
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Post by Haardrada on Jun 29, 2018 22:49:26 GMT
I have since the publication of 3.0 been careful to consider adding allies to my existing armies or including them in new armies.I also checked out the Big Battle assessments to see how the addition of an ally could change the rated performance of each individual army...I'm not particularly competitive...I just like fast and manouverable armies and any advice on using an army can't be a bad thing..eh? Another reason is to keep your opponent guessing as it widens the choice of elements you could field...mind he/she could do the same. But I also find the addition of an ally interesting...the Hsuing nu can have a Chinese ally with a Kn and 2 x 8cb adding more punch and firepower.The South Welsh can add English Kn allies,the Ghaznavids can add Rajput Kn or Ellies,My Hindu Indians can add Tibetan 4Kn,My Grenadines can add Islamic Berbers with additional Sp,Kn or Cm and my Timurids can add more Lh (mongols) or a 3rd Bw element by adding Black sheep Turks....or I can choose from the original lists. The addition of an ally can provide a pip drain,particularly when push backs,persuits and flee moves occur..so using an ally is not always a good idea. legacydirs.umiacs.umd.edu/~kuijt/BBDBA/ArmyAssessment.html
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Post by nangwaya on Jun 30, 2018 0:37:01 GMT
I have since the publication of 3.0 been careful to consider adding allies to my existing armies or including them in new armies.I also checked out the Big Battle assessments to see how the addition of an ally could change the rated performance of each individual army...I'm not particularly competitive...I just like fast and manouverable armies and any advice on using an army can't be a bad thing..eh? Another reason is to keep your opponent guessing as it widens the choice of elements you could field...mind he/she could do the same. But I also find the addition of an ally interesting...the Hsuing nu can have a Chinese ally with a Kn and 2 x 8cb adding more punch and firepower.The South Welsh can add English Kn allies,the Ghaznavids can add Rajput Kn or Ellies,My Hindu Indians can add Tibetan 4Kn,My Grenadines can add Islamic Berbers with additional Sp,Kn or Cm and my Timurids can add more Lh (mongols) or a 3rd Bw element by adding Black sheep Turks....or I can choose from the original lists. The addition of an ally can provide a pip drain,particularly when push backs,persuits and flee moves occur..so using an ally is not always a good idea. legacydirs.umiacs.umd.edu/~kuijt/BBDBA/ArmyAssessment.htmlThanks for the link Haardrada, going to be an interesting read! Based on everyone's posts, I think I should paint up three more core elements for the Albanians that the Allies are currently taking up, and see how the non-Allied Albanians perform. I am about to start painting up a Wallachian army, and am aiming to do the same thing I originally did with the Albanians, and use Allies, in this case Polish allies and give the Wallachians 3x3Kn, and remove 1xLH and 2xPs core elements.
I wonder if Vlad ever allied with the Poles?.. think he did with the Hungarians, but still have a long read ahead of me.
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Post by Haardrada on Jun 30, 2018 18:06:07 GMT
I have since the publication of 3.0 been careful to consider adding allies to my existing armies or including them in new armies.I also checked out the Big Battle assessments to see how the addition of an ally could change the rated performance of each individual army...I'm not particularly competitive...I just like fast and manouverable armies and any advice on using an army can't be a bad thing..eh? Another reason is to keep your opponent guessing as it widens the choice of elements you could field...mind he/she could do the same. But I also find the addition of an ally interesting...the Hsuing nu can have a Chinese ally with a Kn and 2 x 8cb adding more punch and firepower.The South Welsh can add English Kn allies,the Ghaznavids can add Rajput Kn or Ellies,My Hindu Indians can add Tibetan 4Kn,My Grenadines can add Islamic Berbers with additional Sp,Kn or Cm and my Timurids can add more Lh (mongols) or a 3rd Bw element by adding Black sheep Turks....or I can choose from the original lists. The addition of an ally can provide a pip drain,particularly when push backs,persuits and flee moves occur..so using an ally is not always a good idea. legacydirs.umiacs.umd.edu/~kuijt/BBDBA/ArmyAssessment.htmlThanks for the link Haardrada, going to be an interesting read! Based on everyone's posts, I think I should paint up three more core elements for the Albanians that the Allies are currently taking up, and see how the non-Allied Albanians perform. I am about to start painting up a Wallachian army, and am aiming to do the same thing I originally did with the Albanians, and use Allies, in this case Polish allies and give the Wallachians 3x3Kn, and remove 1xLH and 2xPs core elements.
I wonder if Vlad ever allied with the Poles?.. think he did with the Hungarians, but still have a long read ahead of me.
I would say use what you want to use and what suites your style of play...if you want to take your fight to your enemy then the allies will beef up your army,if you want to invite your enemy to attack you in heavy terrain then use the core army...as long as its fun. The Wallachians sound inviting and with such a renowned leader!lol I would be tempted to drop 3×Ps (there are still 2 remember)and from the Late Poles I'd add 2×3Kn and 1×8Cb...that would give me a core of 3Kns backed by Lh and 3 shooty elements backed by a few bad terrain elements...but thats just my view.
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Post by nangwaya on Jun 30, 2018 19:19:23 GMT
Thanks for the 8Cb idea.
I had just re-read the section on allies earlier in the day, and was under the wrong impression that I had to pick the General and the remaining elements had to be of the most common element type. Now I know that only the second element has to come from the most common element type.
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Post by arnopov on Jul 2, 2018 11:10:25 GMT
I really like allies. I think it's by far the most succesful new feature from 3.0. Their main function is to get rid of dross, for instance too many Ps/Ax or LH. Pretty much anything is better than 3xPs. If the ally brings good stuff to the party, well even better. In the Albanian and Wallachian cases, bingo. Way too many Ps in the raw lists, and the allies have access to 3Bd! 3Bd are the most usefull element to have, a very nice antidote to Bw. The fact that they come with 2x3Kn is also very nice. Absolute no brainer, the allies here turn no-hopers into half decent lists (still not great mind)
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Post by nangwaya on Jul 2, 2018 17:12:26 GMT
I have never used an army with blades before, so perhaps I better order up some more figs.
Although I now know I don't have to have all three elements being the same type, I was thinking that if they are, at least they get to move and behave the same, and perhaps limit pip usage.
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Post by Haardrada on Jul 13, 2018 21:50:27 GMT
I have since the publication of 3.0 been careful to consider adding allies to my existing armies or including them in new armies.I also checked out the Big Battle assessments to see how the addition of an ally could change the rated performance of each individual army...I'm not particularly competitive...I just like fast and manouverable armies and any advice on using an army can't be a bad thing..eh? Another reason is to keep your opponent guessing as it widens the choice of elements you could field...mind he/she could do the same. But I also find the addition of an ally interesting...the Hsuing nu can have a Chinese ally with a Kn and 2 x 8cb adding more punch and firepower.The South Welsh can add English Kn allies,the Ghaznavids can add Rajput Kn or Ellies,My Hindu Indians can add Tibetan 4Kn,My Grenadines can add Islamic Berbers with additional Sp,Kn or Cm and my Timurids can add more Lh (mongols) or a 3rd Bw element by adding Black sheep Turks....or I can choose from the original lists. The addition of an ally can provide a pip drain,particularly when push backs,persuits and flee moves occur..so using an ally is not always a good idea. legacydirs.umiacs.umd.edu/~kuijt/BBDBA/ArmyAssessment.htmlAnyone have a copy of this saved?Just asking as the link is broken or it has been deleted?
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Post by Haardrada on Jul 13, 2018 21:50:50 GMT
I have since the publication of 3.0 been careful to consider adding allies to my existing armies or including them in new armies.I also checked out the Big Battle assessments to see how the addition of an ally could change the rated performance of each individual army...I'm not particularly competitive...I just like fast and manouverable armies and any advice on using an army can't be a bad thing..eh? Another reason is to keep your opponent guessing as it widens the choice of elements you could field...mind he/she could do the same. But I also find the addition of an ally interesting...the Hsuing nu can have a Chinese ally with a Kn and 2 x 8cb adding more punch and firepower.The South Welsh can add English Kn allies,the Ghaznavids can add Rajput Kn or Ellies,My Hindu Indians can add Tibetan 4Kn,My Grenadines can add Islamic Berbers with additional Sp,Kn or Cm and my Timurids can add more Lh (mongols) or a 3rd Bw element by adding Black sheep Turks....or I can choose from the original lists. The addition of an ally can provide a pip drain,particularly when push backs,persuits and flee moves occur..so using an ally is not always a good idea. legacydirs.umiacs.umd.edu/~kuijt/BBDBA/ArmyAssessment.htmlAnyone have a copy of this saved?Just asking as the link is broken or it has been deleted?
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Post by twrnz on Jul 15, 2018 0:43:54 GMT
I occasionally use an ally for DBA. They add another dimension to an army which model something different. I often consider allies for BBDBA as it assists in fielding armies.
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Post by j2klbs on Aug 18, 2018 4:14:37 GMT
What do you guys think about using allies with the II/12 Alexandrian Macedonian? My thoughts are that having two spear might be effective as a fighting force. So, the army would look something like ...
<core> 1 x 3Kn/general (Alexander) 1 x 4Ax (hypaspists) 1 x LH (Thracians w/ javelins) 6 x 4Pk (phalangites)
<Thessalian allies> 1 x Cv 2 x Sp
Basically, this is trading away a 2nd 4Ax and Ps for two Sp at the cost of PIP efficiency. I think the 2 x Sp would be more effective than what is given up, but is it worth the price?
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