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Post by nangwaya on Jun 18, 2018 15:52:21 GMT
I just started reading one of the Men At Arms Series (#69) by Osprey: "The Greek and Persian Wars...", and in the second paragraph:
"the Persian wars began as an ideological conflict, fought between a tyrannical empire and a proud democratic freedom-loving people."
My goodness, I thought I was reading part of the script from 300!
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Post by greedo on Jun 18, 2018 16:53:19 GMT
I do love how it's always somehow forgotten that Spartans had slaves, and to become a "man" in Sparta meant to kill one of them. How freedom loving
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Post by Tony Aguilar on Jun 18, 2018 16:56:11 GMT
Whoever my enemy is in a battle is always the "bad guy."
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Post by nangwaya on Jun 19, 2018 0:55:50 GMT
I do love how it's always somehow forgotten that Spartans had slaves, and to become a "man" in Sparta meant to kill one of them. How freedom loving Wow, I didn't know they had to kill a slave to become a "man".
Hopefully the slave was given a fighting chance.
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Post by lkmjbc on Jun 19, 2018 4:27:22 GMT
I'm not sure I see bias here. The statement is certainly true. Though one could argue the "ideological" bit.
The Persians were certainly tyrannical. The Greeks were certainly in most cases a "freedom loving" democracy for their own people. Both sides took and kept slaves. The Persians were sightly less genocidal than the Greeks... who had no trouble wiping out foreign peoples and cultures. The polyglot nature of the Persian Empire and Cyrus' example did tend to mitigate their worst tendencies. Though of course we have ample stories of the Persians willing to wipe out peoples with little encouragement.
Perhaps the real bias here is for us to equate Empire with evil and freedom loving democracy with good. Both governmental forms have certainly produced abundant amounts of both...
Joe Collins
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Post by felixs on Jun 22, 2018 11:38:29 GMT
The glorification of Greek (and Roman) civilization is part of the founding myth of the West.
And the market Osprey is aimed at is not one that is distinguished for its interest in critical thought.
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Post by Haardrada on Jun 22, 2018 20:46:17 GMT
Didn't the Athenians also have slaves?Plus their version of Democracy was a lot more of the rich and influential families to squabble for power than the hybrid system systems we boast today.
Remember to the victor the spoils...and their version how they achieved it.π
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Post by jim1973 on Jun 22, 2018 21:38:35 GMT
The ancients did what they did according to their laws, customs, religious beliefs and level of understanding of the physical world. It's not their fault that some later people glorified them. A bit harsh to judge them with a modern eye? But in reference to the original post, it was the Persians that started it after all. Over a bit of earth and water as a sign of submission.
Cheers
Jim
PS Heaven forbid that rich and influential families influence modern day politics...
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Post by Haardrada on Jun 22, 2018 23:00:00 GMT
PS Heaven forbid that rich and influential families influence modern day politics... A strange phenomenon that has always been present.π
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Post by greedo on Jun 23, 2018 5:23:16 GMT
PS Heaven forbid that rich and influential families influence modern day politics... A strange phenomenon that has always been present.π
"Making Athens City State Great Again!"
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Post by Haardrada on Jun 23, 2018 6:24:09 GMT
A strange phenomenon that has always been present.π
"Making Athens City State Great Again!"
I just wish I could regain the interest and enthusiasm to finish painting the army.π
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Post by jim1973 on Jun 23, 2018 16:11:00 GMT
5th Century Athens is like French Napoleonic. They fight everybody! Saitic Egyptian anyone?
Jim
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Post by jim1973 on Jun 23, 2018 16:13:23 GMT
"Making Athens City State Great Again!"
It couldn't be on a red chiton.
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