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Post by jim1973 on May 21, 2018 1:03:39 GMT
Hamlet - "It functions only as ROUGH GOING" . Ediface - "It is treated only as BAD GOING, except when it is used as a CAMP".
As there is no restriction in deploying in ROUGH or BAD GOING, then I would allow deployment. Phil also writes in the descriptions "insignificant economic or defensive value and its inhabitants flee when troops approach" for Hamlets, and "no economic value, denizens or defensive value" for Ediface, which are not rules per se, but do indicate Phil's thoughts on these features.
Cheers
Jim
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Post by cleopatra2 on May 21, 2018 1:21:35 GMT
By the way, I like the card for Stampeding cattle. What army has this?
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Post by jim1973 on May 21, 2018 1:39:52 GMT
By the way, I like the card for Stampeding cattle. What army has this? I'll let stevie explain that one!  Jim |
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Post by stevie on May 21, 2018 4:05:35 GMT
I can’t find any rule that prevents such defender deployment, as long as the Hamlet is in your deployment area. The question arises when it is the invader who wants to deploy in the Hamlet in his deployment zone. The Hamlet “belongs to the defender.” This is one of the unresolved issues of DBA. What does it mean to belong to the defender but in The invaders deployment area. I am not as sure as Stevie that an unoccupied hamlet is the same as an occupied city or fort. I can see your point of view Bob and Jim... ...but why would Phil Barker specifically say that hamlets and edifices belong to the defender? Why bother to put that in if it has no meaning whatsoever? What other things did Mr Barker write in his rules that we are going to conveniently ignore when it suits us? As for there being no restriction mentioned when deploying in these places, that’s true. There isn’t. But there is also no restriction mentioned for deploying in a river either. Deployment says nothing about rivers...but at least hamlets and edifices are stated as belonging to the defender. It must mean something. From an invading army’s point of view, these places will have to be checked out by sending troops into them in case they contain any enemy lurking in ambush within them. And this would best be done in daylight, with other supporting troops battle ready nearby in case they find anything, rather than at night before the engagement starts. Of course, you could say the same thing about any woods or gullies as well... All I can say is I didn’t write the rules. Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018
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Post by stevie on May 21, 2018 4:10:30 GMT
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Post by greedo on May 21, 2018 5:46:21 GMT
Great cards Jim! Love em. Perfect for my nephew or dad to learn the rules quickly by
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Post by martin on May 21, 2018 5:55:48 GMT
I can’t find any rule that prevents such defender deployment, as long as the Hamlet is in your deployment area. The question arises when it is the invader who wants to deploy in the Hamlet in his deployment zone. The Hamlet “belongs to the defender.” This is one of the unresolved issues of DBA. What does it mean to belong to the defender but in The invaders deployment area. I am not as sure as Stevie that an unoccupied hamlet is the same as an occupied city or fort. I can see your point of view Bob and Jim... ...but why would Phil Barker specifically say that hamlets and edifices belong to the defender? Why bother to put that in if it has no meaning whatsoever? What other things did Mr Barker write in his rules that we are going to conveniently ignore when it suits us? As for there being no restriction mentioned when deploying in these places, that’s true. There isn’t. >
I’m inclined to agree with Bob and jim1973 on this one. I have a strong suspicion that the “belongs to the defender” comment is a leftover from v2.2, where there was only one type of BUA. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, I have played treats edifices and hamlets as areas free for either army to deploy in if in their deployment area., and to move through subsequently (unlike forts and cities). If you can find me players who do otherwise I owe you a beer, Stevie. Martin |
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Post by stevie on May 21, 2018 9:48:08 GMT
I’m inclined to agree with Bob and jim1973 on this one. I have a strong suspicion that the “belongs to the defender” comment is a leftover from v2.2, where there was only one type of BUA. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, I have played treats edifices and hamlets as areas free for either army to deploy in if in their deployment area., and to move through subsequently (unlike forts and cities). If you can find me players who do otherwise I owe you a beer, Stevie. Martin
Actually Martin, I can think of a few players who interpret the rule as I do... ...firstly there are my mates that I play with (but that’s only because I’ve bullied them into accepting my interpretation, so I don’t suppose that counts does it), then there is the person that told martini that he couldn’t deploy in a hamlet, which is what started this digression in the first place. (an ice cold cider will do nicely thanks ) Nonetheless, for the sake of consistency I shall bow down to peer pressure and follow the rest of the DBA community by allowing invaders to deploy directly into hamlets and edifices, and just assume that the words “belong to the defender” were only put or left in the rules by Phil Barker in order to fool old Stevie. On the other hand, it’s given me an idea... (See fanaticus.boards.net/thread/1334/concealed-ambushes)Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018
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Post by martini on May 21, 2018 11:10:55 GMT
Thanks to those who replied to my question about hamlets. In the game in question, I was the invader, the hamlet was placed by the defender and when I chose which side to deploy in, I turned the board around through 180deg so the hamlet ended up in my deployment area.
I've played a lot of DBM games so I am familiar with the notion of hiding troops in ambush - i.e. they aren't put on table at the start of the game - and have often had to send troops to investigate terrain that might be hiding the enemy. As far as I know, however, in DBA you must put all your elements out at deployment, unless you have kept some back to land from a waterway.
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Post by martin on May 21, 2018 11:35:31 GMT
Stampeded Cattle (SC) appeared in the very first DBA lists back in nineteen canteen, where the Western Sudanese army had them included. I think they may have been played as SCh equivalent, so ‘expendables’, indeed. Martin |
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Post by goragrad on May 21, 2018 11:50:46 GMT
Don't know if it made it into the DBMM lists, but DBM had 'flaming oxcarts' for Gauls as an expendable.
Was on my list to do before DBMM came out and then DBA 3 took things on a tangent.
P.S. Just downloaded the cards and will be looking through them.
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Post by bob on May 21, 2018 20:13:42 GMT
I guess this Stampeding Cattle (SC)card is good for players doing DBA 1 or 1.1 , as these armies have "Stampeding Cattle"
Ming Chinese
3x3Cv, 2x2LH, 2x4Bd, 2x4Cb, 2x4Bw, lxArt or SC or 2Ps
Sung Chinese
2x3Cv, 2x2LH, 2x3/4Bd, 2x3/4Cb, 2x2Ps, lxArt, lxArt or SC
West Sudanese
lx3Kn, 2x3Cv, 3x2LH, lx4Sp,4x3Bw, lx3Cm or 3Bw or SC
Also, in Original version, the Inca had War Dogs, WD. One of my best early memories, is attacking my opponent with an element of WD, winning, turning on the his flank, and "eating up" three more elements. Only time I ever won with all kills from a single element.
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Post by gregorius on May 22, 2018 8:49:39 GMT
I downloaded these hint cards today. They'll get a run this weekend in Canberra.
Cheers,
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Post by bob on May 22, 2018 20:05:32 GMT
I forgot to mention that there are a more compact versions of Hint Cards for 3.0 on the DBA Yahoo site, files section. No picture, just data. These were done in 2015 groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DBA/files |
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Post by stevie on Jun 12, 2018 19:31:17 GMT
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