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Post by trikak on Apr 29, 2018 8:47:12 GMT
We have not been playing DBA 3 for long but found a problem with if front rank of say warband was destroye (doubled) did the supporting second rank die with it ? if not flanked page 28 fig20b MINUS Warband B
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Post by stevie on Apr 29, 2018 9:11:00 GMT
Welcome Trikak. And fear not: the second rank of Wb (or any second rank for that matter) is only destroyed if also contacted in the flank/rear by an enemy front-edge. Have a look at the last sentence under “Destroyed Elements” on page 12 paragraph 1:- “An element that has an enemy front edge in contact with its side or rear edge is destroyed by recoiling, being pushed back, fleeing, or being in a column whose front element is destroyed.” (See also diagrams 19b, 19c and 20a to 20f, as well as the FAQ)The latest FAQ, as well as other useful player aids, can be found in the links at the bottom of this post. Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018
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Post by trikak on Apr 29, 2018 13:26:12 GMT
Thanks for that,will have to play that rule now
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Post by trikak on Apr 29, 2018 13:28:29 GMT
Thanks for that,will have to play that rule now Another question if you push an element back into a river or WW they are destroyed yes |
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Post by stevie on Apr 29, 2018 13:59:01 GMT
It’s me again Trikak. You are talking about ‘recoiling into an obstacle’. For this you need to read the following on page 12 paragraph 5:- “A recoiling or pushed back element whose rear edge or rear corner meets terrain it cannot enter, a battlefield edge, friends it cannot pass through or push back, an enemy, or a city, fort or camp, (or a city gate – see FAQ) ends its move there (see diagram 19b). An element already in such contact with any of these cannot recoil and is destroyed instead (see diagram 20f)." So Waterways are impassible, and you halt if the recoil contacts them, or you're destroyed if unable to move at all. Rivers are not impassible, and can be crossed, so you can recoil into them. Note however the rule on page 12 paragraph 8:- “(Fleeing troops) are destroyed if they enter any River.” Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018
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Post by trikak on Apr 30, 2018 11:01:46 GMT
Again thank you for clearing up this point,we do keep throwing up question from our games night due to not fully graping some rules at 71 you would think I would get it now !!
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Post by martin on Apr 30, 2018 11:50:00 GMT
Again thank you for clearing up this point,we do keep throwing up question from our games night due to not fully graping some rules at 71 you would think I would get it now !! It’s nominally Fast Play, but its apparent simplicity hides all SORTS of little nuances. Been playing for decades, and still get stuff wrong (at 57, and increasing 😊), so you’re not alone on that one....!! Martin |
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Post by stevie on Apr 30, 2018 13:29:31 GMT
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Post by medievalthomas on Apr 30, 2018 18:09:23 GMT
All these answers are correct. Presentation not the game's strong point (fortunately it has many others).
Glad your back playing. A lot got cleared up/improved in 3.0 but it does take some carefully reading to find out what.
TomT
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Post by primuspilus on Apr 30, 2018 19:41:55 GMT
Unfortunately, the blurb around Wb in the description of the elements is now simply no longer accurate. Warbands are no longer, in any objective sense of the words, "fierce but brittle". They are now in fact fierce, and quite resilient!
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Post by medievalthomas on May 1, 2018 18:20:58 GMT
Primus:
We had a lot feedback that Warbands were too weak in 2.2 so gave them a small boost. Do you think we went too far? Or is it just the odd description that needs revision.
TomT
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Post by bob on May 1, 2018 20:02:25 GMT
"Warbands are no longer brittle"
Were they ever brittle? In 1 and 2 they were destroyed by Elephants if just beaten. Does that make them brittle? Now will recoil from the beasts. The description now says only the 3Wb are brittle relative to 4 Wb. Now they do not lose second rank, but do not get second move. They have same combat factors as in 1 and 2, but now Aux is +1 better vs mounted. I take those descriptions with a large grain of salt.
DBA 3
"WARBAND (Wb), including all wild irregular foot that relied more on a ferocious impetuous charge than on mutual cohesion, individual skills or missiles; such as most Celts and Germans. Enemy foot that failed to withstand their impact were swept away, but they were sensitive to harassment by psiloi and to mounted attack. Those that charged most impetuously, moved most swiftly, were used to woods, but were brittle in defeat (3Wb), such as Britons or Galwegians are classed as “Fast”. Those that kept a shield wall in adversity and fought it out toe-to-toe (4Wb) are classed as “Solid”."
"Warband Destroyed by Knights or Scythed Chariots if in good going. If not, recoil."
DBA 2
"WARBAND, including all wild irregular foot that relied more on a ferocious impetuous charge than on mutual cohesion, individual skills or missiles; such as Galatians, Gauls, early Germans, Dacians, Britons or Galwegians. Enemy foot that failed to withstand the first impact of their charge were swept away, but they lacked staying power and were sensitive to harassment by psiloi and to mounted attack. "
"Warband. Destroyed by Elephants, Knights or Scythed Chariots if in good going. If not, recoil."
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Post by primuspilus on May 6, 2018 2:10:22 GMT
"Warbands are no longer brittle" Were they ever brittle? In 1 and 2 they were destroyed by Elephants if just beaten. Does that make them brittle? Now will recoil from the beasts. The description now says only the 3Wb are brittle relative to 4 Wb. Now they do not lose second rank, but do not get second move. They have same combat factors as in 1 and 2, but now Aux is +1 better vs mounted. I take those descriptions with a large grain of salt. DBA 3 "WARBAND (Wb), including all wild irregular foot that relied more on a ferocious impetuous charge than on mutual cohesion, individual skills or missiles; such as most Celts and Germans. Enemy foot that failed to withstand their impact were swept away, but they were sensitive to harassment by psiloi and to mounted attack. Those that charged most impetuously, moved most swiftly, were used to woods, but were brittle in defeat (3Wb), such as Britons or Galwegians are classed as “Fast”. Those that kept a shield wall in adversity and fought it out toe-to-toe (4Wb) are classed as “Solid”." "Warband Destroyed by Knights or Scythed Chariots if in good going. If not, recoil." DBA 2 "WARBAND, including all wild irregular foot that relied more on a ferocious impetuous charge than on mutual cohesion, individual skills or missiles; such as Galatians, Gauls, early Germans, Dacians, Britons or Galwegians. Enemy foot that failed to withstand the first impact of their charge were swept away, but they lacked staying power and were sensitive to harassment by psiloi and to mounted attack. " "Warband. Destroyed by Elephants, Knights or Scythed Chariots if in good going. If not, recoil." Sorry, Bob, From section 5.2, design philosophy: "Thus, most knights are rash, all warbands are fierce but brittle, and all skirmishers are timid". |
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Post by bob on May 6, 2018 17:23:28 GMT
Yes, but later he restricted brittleness to just 3Wb, not all.
"Those that charged most impetuously, moved most swiftly, were used to woods, but were brittle in defeat (3Wb), such as Britons or Galwegians are classed as “Fast”. "
Referring to Gallic army
"However, as cavalry became dominant, warriors without horses and un-stiffened by nobles became less stable and more brittle, so can also be
3Wb."
Phil had wanted to make all Gallic Wb solid, but I complained that many people (including me with 4) already had armies with 3 figures so a real paint to convert to 4Wb.
Now, if we only knew what Phil meant by "Brittle."
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Post by primuspilus on May 7, 2018 4:12:50 GMT
If we only knew what "all warbands" meant...
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