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Post by vonberlichingen on Mar 4, 2018 2:54:55 GMT
Hi, I am looking for a suitable female figure for conversion into the Shang general and concubine Fu Hao. Which 15mm female figures would be available? Presumably, Fu Hao might have worn similar clothing and armo(u)r to these Essex figures, but cut for a woman. Lamellar armo(u)r may be another possibility, although I do not know exactly what was found in her tomb: www.essexminiatures.co.uk/collections/15mm-ancient-shang-or-chou-chinese/products/cho13Thanks! |
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Post by goragrad on Mar 4, 2018 4:52:05 GMT
There was no mention of armor in any of the articles on her tomb. Not sure where the sculptor got the armor and costume for this statue - upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Fu_Hao.jpgThe armor on that statue definitely appears to be based on that of the officers in the tomb of the First Emperor. I am somewhat skeptical about the bulges at the breasts - female samurai that I have seen pictures of apparently bound their breasts and are wearing essentially the same armor that male samurai wore. |
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Post by vonberlichingen on Mar 5, 2018 3:10:49 GMT
Thanks, goragrad. Have you read all of the articles on her tomb, even the ones in Chinese...? <grin> Regardless, I can't claim to have done so myself, not even in English, yet did not see any mention of armour among those that I have read, either. However, the lists of artefacts have tended to focus on counting them by (durable) material and overall category, which does not exclude the possibility that some armour made of organic materials may have been deposited and since decayed. Anyway, to rephrase the request, could anybody here recommend a suitable 15mm female figure which could represent an Asian woman in a robe which would not be too cumbersome for command, i.e. with a hem that is below her knees and above her ankles, and with sleeves that aren't too wide? I could try green-stuffing some rhino hide armour, a helmet, and a yue axe onto the basic figure. Who makes 15mm Boudicca figures? Might there be some suitable 15mm sorceress figures? 15mm geisha? Actually, is this Corvus Belli ancient Spanish woman figure ("la Dama de Elche") still available anywhere? damadeelche.me/ancient-spanish-infantry-command-group/theminiaturespage.com/news/69249/ |
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Post by Haardrada on Mar 5, 2018 7:34:11 GMT
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Post by Simon on Mar 5, 2018 8:11:54 GMT
You might want to have a look at Outpost's Khmer maiden Guard or some of the Indian maiden guard by eg Xyston or Magister Militum?
Cheers
Simon
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Post by vodnik on Mar 5, 2018 10:24:15 GMT
...you could use one of that girls:  |
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Post by goragrad on Mar 5, 2018 12:25:01 GMT
In 'Ancient Chinese Armor' the Shang helmets recovered in tombs are constructed of bronze and leather. Leather armor has been recovered, although it is noted that in some cases only the lacquer coating on leather armor has survived. Based on that, I have doubts that any armor was buried with her. At any rate, I was rather thinking in my comment that a head swap might be the best option. In doing another quick websearch, I came across this blog with a brief description of Shang costuming - www.featureschina.com/blog/chinese-ancient-clothing-shang-dynasty-dress/It notes that both hairstyles and clothing were similar for men and women - "Men and women of the Shang Dynasty hairstyle similar, the hair style, mostly crimp shoulder. The head is a crown towel cap hoop type. Some women comb the top bun, it traverses a bone hairpin, and others at the top of the head on both sides of the inclined inserted two branches bird shaped hosta." Unfortunately no illustrations other than this one or the basic costume - www.featureschina.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/shangchaofushi-300x300.jpg |
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Post by vonberlichingen on Mar 12, 2018 1:10:32 GMT
Thank you, all! goragrad : You must have an excellent personal library! Could you please share some bibliographic details on Ancient Chinese Armor? Apparently, some of the organic objects in Fu Hao's tomb did not survive very well, for example little of her coffin was intact when found, but I do not know what else did or did not survive. Had you come across any archaeological reports or papers with comprehensive lists and descriptions of organic finds from her tomb (besides ivory), or did they tend to focus on bronze objects of this kind or jade objects of that kind, and so on? Supposing that Fu Hao did command armies, it seems odd that she would not have worn armour, unless she never exposed herself to physical danger? And if she did wear armour, why wouldn't it have been deposited in her tomb? Sadly, the text in that blog looks very much like a word-for-word translation, although it still has some useful information. I have just found an image of a jade figure from her tomb here: depts.washington.edu/chinaciv/archae/tfuhjade.htmvodnik : The two on the left resemble the Eureka geisha. Do you know who manufactured the one on the right? |
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Post by felixs on Mar 31, 2018 22:30:21 GMT
Simple truth is that we have no idea how Fu Hao might have looked. As a wife of King Wu Ding (or Wuding, if you like), she would have had duties other than warfare. The geisha suggestion is extremely off. A Viking women would probably be as well a fit. If you need to use something from a later period of time, most non-veiled Central Asian figures would probably be a good fit. If she actually took to the field in a fighting role (which I find unlikely, but you never know), I would assume that she would have worn standard warrior dress, thus looking not different from any male general. Anyway, not different in any way that should be too obvious in 15mm. Maybe you could give her very heavy makeup. To my knowledge there are no records on that either, but it it not totally unlikely and would make the mini stand out. Alternatively, she might have had somewhat more girly colours than the rest of the army - again, unlikely, but we just do not know. Most of the Chinese depictions are as useless as anything else. Fantasy, inspired by typical pseudo-historical nerd images of what everything ancient might have looked and with a fair bit of "sexy" thrown in. As for what is found in her tomb, that is also not necessarily representative of what she would have used in real life. Even the axes found in there are not battle axes, but rather ceremonial. Probably just a symbol of power. Maybe for use in executions or human sacrifice - but most likely not. Most likely just power bling-bling. The rest of the stuff found in her grave is also of a symbolic nature and would serve her in after-life. Go with whatever you like. Fu Hao is as good a choice for a general of a Shang army as anyone. I quite like this depiction: www.qhd66.com/news.asp?id=295&mnid=16474&classname=%C8%CB%CE%EF%B9%CA%CA%C2 |
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Post by goragrad on Apr 1, 2018 0:20:47 GMT
vonberlichingen: My apologies it took a bit to dig up the info on the book, taking care of my mother took me away from my house and as so many of my references were there I got a Scribd account to reference them here. With that I then did some searching for additional works of which the Ancient Chinese Armor is one. As the work is in Chinese the information was not readily available in the Scribd document. At any rate, I did find it and here is a link to Amazon - www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/753474928X/ref=sr_1_2_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1520854180&sr=8-2&keywords=9787534749285The actual title is - Armor Recovery. Someday, when finances permit, I will be getting a copy. The illustrations are like blueprints for making reconstructions. I only wish there was a full English translation. Here is the Scribd link - www.scribd.com/document/64719769/Ancient-Chinese-Armor |
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