|
|
Post by stevie on Jan 28, 2018 22:01:04 GMT
Here is something that came up in a game recently that I’d like to share. I assume that most players are already aware of this, but I’ll post it anyway… …partly to make sure my interpretation is correct, and partly to spread the word. FirstlyPage 8 paragraph 6 says:- “In each bound, the first move entirely by road uses 0 PIPs if it is entirely by road and moves until it contacts an enemy, friends, or moves its full tactical move distance. Each other tactical move uses 1 PIP.” Note that to claim the zero PIP cost, an element or column in its first road move must move its full tactical move distance. It doesn’t say that subsequent road moves must move its full tactical move distance…only the first move must, if you want it to cost zero PIPs. Therefore subsequent road moves after the first can be less than the full tactical move distance if you want, but cost PIPs. (And note that Command Distance is also ignored, as the first road move costs zero PIPs) SecondlyPage 9 paragraph 3 says:- “Second or subsequent tactical moves cannot start or go within 1 BW of the enemy (unless moving along a road).” It doesn’t say that primary or subsequent road moves can ignore Threat Zones.  A blade column can sail right passed element Ax-A, because being on a road it can go within 1 BW of an enemy. However, as soon as it enters the Threat Zone of Ax-B, it will be pinned. Sooo…if you want to stop the infamous and unpopular ‘road torpedo’, keep off the road and restrict anyone from coming down it with a Threat Zone. I just thought you’d like to know, if you didn’t already.  Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file:-
fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018
|
|
|
|
Post by stevie on Jan 28, 2018 22:41:25 GMT
Oh, one more thing... This also means that you can force your opponent to spend PIPs when they try to move down a road for zero cost. If they can't contact an enemy, friends, or move their full tactical move distance (because they've been halted prematurely by a Threat Zone), then they are going to have to pay for the road move. Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file:-
fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018
|
|
|
|
Post by Cromwell on Jan 29, 2018 8:42:01 GMT
Thanks, I found that interesting and reinforces how I interpreted this rule.
|
|
|
|
Post by Tony Aguilar on Jan 29, 2018 14:11:19 GMT
Thanks, I found that interesting and reinforces how I interpreted this rule. I agree completely and I think Stevie did a good job explaining/illustrating this as well. One thing I will add is that the initial road move costs 0 PIPS regardless of whether the column includes elements that would normally cost and additional PIP to move, such as Elephants, Art, etc. |
|
|
|
Post by primuspilus on Jan 30, 2018 13:11:07 GMT
And of course, the road torpedo better be winning its combats if the column is more than two elements deep. Columns are very vulnerable, and as Stevie points out, not only will that column halt in TZ, I reckon you could park an Ax smack astride the road in that picture, and the long column is engaging you at less than even money - if it loses, someone dies...
|
|
|
|
Post by medievalthomas on Jan 31, 2018 16:43:10 GMT
The rule re 0 PIP moves ignoring add ons is in the next sentence: "...a move that uses a PIP uses up an extra PIP [if etc.]". As first Road Move doesn't use a PIP its exempt.
TZ situation much more complex. In Stevie's diagram moving play may argue that as long as Road Move is "(b) to advance into or towards contact.." they can keep moving for free. Gets into the whole what counts as "towards" - just moving closer but not pivoting? Prohibiting Road Movers from entering a TZ would have been simplier (and much more logical). Still somehow we survive...In practice TZs not likely to stop many Road Moves (though you clearly can't pass through a TZ).
TomT
|
|
|
|
Post by primuspilus on Jan 31, 2018 17:38:57 GMT
Also, whether or not the elements halt in the TZ as drawn by Stevie depends heavily on how one is required to move along a road... Absent a term that says "the centre point of the element must be positioned on the centreline of the road at all times to claim the road movement benefits", some devious folks could "wiggle" an element a bit as it moves along, arguing that the centre is, indeed, "roughly" moving along the centre of the road...and just sneak past a less then perfectly positioned TZ...
But Tom is right. We yet do manage.
|
|
|
|
Post by stevie on Jan 31, 2018 21:10:23 GMT
Ha! I anticipated that one primuspilus… See the FAQ, “Roads”:- Q: Can a single element move sideways and still get the Free PIP Road Move or make multiple road moves? A: No. The center of the moving element's front must stay roughly in the center of the road and its sides roughly parallel astride the road. (If in doubt, have your Threat Zone touching the road…that’ll stop ‘em)And Tom... ...how can the front element of a column claim zero PIP cost if they don't contact an enemy, a friend, or move its full tactical move distance? (I don't care what the song "Convoy" says...ya gonna have to pay that toll...  )Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018
|
|
|
|
Post by primuspilus on Jan 31, 2018 21:58:23 GMT
Ah, Stevie, that depends on what "roughly" means, no? "Roughly" is what, within 3mm? Within 10mm?
|
|
|
|
Post by stevie on Feb 1, 2018 0:10:39 GMT
Well, if you allow a player to get away with a cheesy trick like moving the centre of their element away from the centre of the road... …then maybe. But in what way is the “centre of the moving element’s front roughly in the centre of the road”? Having the centre of the element touching the side of the road is not what I would call being in the centre. Anyway, as I said, if in doubt have the Threat Zone touching (or even slightly overlapping) the road. Let’s see them sneak passed that. (No one is getting down a road if I don’t want them to!)Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file:-fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018
|
|
|
|
Post by primuspilus on Feb 5, 2018 18:45:18 GMT
How much is the front edge allowed to tilt to one side or the other?
One person's "roughly" is not the same as another's. I strongly suggest that wording be fixed. There is nothing wrong with saying that the midpoint of the element's front edge must remain tracking the midline of the road. However, I suspect most folks would find that too restrictive somehow, especially if one's road is not equally wide and smooth-sedge throughout its entire length (this can happen with caulk roads, for example)...
|
|
|
|
Post by primuspilus on Feb 5, 2018 18:46:43 GMT
Of course, my point is that the more you commit to TZing the road, the less you are able to TZ elsewhere... Which is as it should be...
|
|
|
|
Post by stevie on Feb 5, 2018 20:54:42 GMT
How much is the front edge allowed to tilt to one side or the other? Answer: none at all if the element using road movement has to have it’s sides parallel to the road. But I do agree with you…the word ‘roughly’ should not be used in a set of wargame rules. After all… Can an element be ‘roughly’ in contact or not? Can an element be ‘roughly’ inside a Threat Zone? Can an element be ‘roughly’ inside or outside of bad going? The word ‘roughly’ has no meaning and just leads to arguments. Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018
|
|
|
|
Post by primuspilus on Feb 5, 2018 21:14:01 GMT
Define "parallel" to the road, if the road is not perfectly straight, with parallel sides itself... Or did you mean to say "elements must move with their side edges tangential to the road edges..." Isn't it easier to state that elements' front edge must remain perpendicular to the road's centre line at all times while moving at the road rate?
What is "parallel" to a curved section?
This is the issue. One way to resolve this at least partially is to require that a road be 1BW wide everywhere along its length. Again, this solves some of the problem, but not all of it. With the road rules as they are, we are stuck with weird requirements. I for one am glad to see roads, but am getting concerned that they can be abused somewhat as written. Clearly Phil wanted them to "channel" enemy advances. For balance, he had to allow the road torpedo as a downside for the defender perhaps.
What if one stated that a road must be 1+ BW wide, and an element must remain moving entirely on the road for its entire move? This makes roads very fat, but as you quickly see, the only way to remain entirely on the road is not to turn at all, or wiggle around too much.
Alternately, as we do with crests, a road must contain a depiction of the centre line, and the front centre point of the element must track that line, and the front edge must remain perpendicular to that line.
|
|
|
|
Post by stevie on Feb 5, 2018 21:48:24 GMT
Alternately, as we do with crests, a road must contain a depiction of the centre line, and the front centre point of the element must track that line, and the front edge must remain perpendicular to that line. ...and the element sides must also stay parallel to that road's centre line. That's the best solution. (By the way, I like roads being 'roughly' half a BW wide...they look nicer)Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018
|
|
)