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Post by primuspilus on Jan 27, 2018 22:44:13 GMT
Dreams of Stevie... Nixed?... Or perhaps just the Sleazy Dreams of Nick's...  |
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Post by Haardrada on Jan 28, 2018 0:07:31 GMT
I've tried clicking on the link provided but I get a media not found message...what am I not doing right or not added.
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Post by stevie on Jan 28, 2018 10:59:48 GMT
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Post by Haardrada on Jan 28, 2018 11:31:39 GMT
Thanks Stevie the pdf worked fine.👍😊 |
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Post by jdesmond on Jan 28, 2018 21:27:16 GMT
I have been wrong before, I shall be wrong again. Apologies.
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Post by Haardrada on Feb 10, 2018 10:19:09 GMT
Sorry Stevie but I may have found another correction.🤔...That Armies IV/44a Post Mongol Russian and IV/54d other Medieval Scandanavian armies should be enemies from sporadic conflict with Novgarod over possessions in Finland.
Plus Armies IV/44b Post Mongol Russian 1381-1533 and the IV/54c Swedish army 1391-1523 for a war (1495-1497) during the 1st Regency of Sten Sture the Elder., when Christian I of Denmark allied with Ivan the Terrible.
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Post by stevie on Feb 10, 2018 16:32:26 GMT
Well Haardrada, I’ve searched the internet, but all the sites I’ve found just quote the Wikipedia entry:- The Russo-Swedish War of 1495-1497 ADIvan III sent Princes Daniil Shchenya and Vasily Shuisky to lay siege to the Swedish castle of Viborg. The siege lasted for three months and ended when the castellan of the castle, Lord Knut Posse, set his supply of powder on fire, causing an immense explosion which frightened the Muscovites and forced them to retreat. The following year Russian general Andrey Chelyadnin severely devastated Swedish Finland as far as Hämeenlinna (Tavastehus). Sten Sture the Elder, the regent of Sweden, was enraged at the news of the Muscovite expedition and sent Svante Nilsson with 2,000 men to take Ivangorod, a new fortress which Ivan III had built to protect Russian Ingria against Livonian Knights. The fortress was taken without difficulty, but as it was impossible to defend it Svante Nilsson proposed to hand it over to the Knights, an offer which they declined. Thereupon the Swedes set the fortress ablaze and sailed home. (See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Swedish_War_(1495%E2%80%9397) ) And here is a very nice picture of Viborg, that would make an excellent DBA medieval type coastal town or city:- places.branipick.com/the-town-of-vyborg-during-the-russo-swedish-war-of-1495-1497-modern-day-russia/ The problem is…I can’t find any accounts of any actual battles associated with this war. Just 2,000 men (about 2 to 4 DBA elements), a couple of sieges, and a large Russian raid. And DBA is about battles, not sieges, raids, skirmishes or sea battles. Do you or anyone else have any further information or links? Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018
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Post by Haardrada on Feb 10, 2018 19:34:37 GMT
Sadly no,thats why I said there "maybe" a correction.lol Information on Scandanavian battles of this period are poorly recorded apart from a few exceprions.Even Ian Heaths' Armies of Medieval Europe vol.2 vagely mentions 80 invasions of Russian territory between 1280-1462AD but the invaders were also also Lithuanian,Polish,Teuronic Knights and Tartars.
The notes under plate F of the Osprey Medieval Scandanavian armies (2) describe a Finnish Auxillery during artillery fire whilst in a Border fortress under fire from Russian artillery 1475...but I can not find any evidence of any actions at this time.
Even the Wikepedia entry does not quote the size of the Russian forces that ravaged Finland after the seige of Viborg.
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Post by primuspilus on Feb 10, 2018 23:44:26 GMT
Just 2,000 men (about 2 to 4 DBA elements), a couple of sieges, and a large Russian raid.
And DBA is about battles, not sieges, raids, skirmishes or sea battles.Stevie, this is not so. The scale of number of men per element is only "nominally" given. DBA is an abstraction, and is scale-less. So yes, viking raids definitely CAN be modelled in DBA, as well as many of the smaller engagements of the Peloponnesian Wars, for example, between a few hundred light troops per side, and a couple of hundred hoplites. Hardraada was correct by this analysis: raids should count. Otherwise, I guess you would argue many of the Dark Age fights between Sub-Roman Britain and the Saxons aren't covered in DBA?
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Post by stevie on Feb 11, 2018 10:21:36 GMT
You are of course correct Primuspilus…elements in DBA are of abstract size, so could be used for any engagement. Perhaps I should clarify what I mean by the term ‘raid’. When a force invades a neighbour with the intention of not seizing and garrisoning their territory but merely to plunder it, and if that force is also unopposed, it is a ‘raid’. If the plundering force is small and is opposed by another small force, it is a ‘skirmish’. If the plundering force is large and is opposed by a large defending force, that usually results in a ‘battle’. During the Hundred Years War for example, the English conducted many such raids into French territory. One of these raids in 1356, led by Edward the Black Prince, had no intention of annexing territory, but to grab as much booty as possible. When confronted by a large French army, the raid resulted in the Battle of Poitiers. Henry V’s campaign of 1415 however was an invasion of conquest. He besieged, captured, and garrisoned Harfleur, then made for English held Calais, forbidding his men to plunder, until blocked by the French at Agincourt. What Haardrada has discovered is what appears to be a war that consisted of a couple of sieges and a large Russian unopposed ‘raid’ deep into Swedish held Finland, gathering cattle, burning fields, and destroying villages, with no intention of permanently capturing or annexing it. Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018
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Post by panthros on Mar 13, 2018 3:52:16 GMT
I think there are always many interpretations to army lists. I appreciate the effort and I look forward to reviewing the proposed changes. I can only imagine the time investment, thanks! I would have named the file and titled it "Unofficial" for the time being so there is no confusion that these lists are not going to be used in comp., especially for the new player who learns about this.
The one thing I would love to see is a bibliography for the proposed changes this way it can be fact checked and validated. No Wiki links, actual scholarly bibliographies.
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Post by stevie on Mar 13, 2018 13:07:43 GMT
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