|
Post by Simon on Sept 16, 2017 10:13:20 GMT
After being led into the dark side of HOTT by Martin Johnson (and, no doubt, subliminally and magically influenced by Pete Duckworth and Martin Smith), I have bought the HOTT 2.1 rules from Amazon.
I note that there is a suggestion in the section on scale that players try the DBA v3 scale of 1 BW = 100 paces rather than the 1" = 100 paces (for 40mm bases) described in the book.
Do people do this? If so, is it used just for shooting/moving distances or generally for such things as size of terrain and deployment areas etc?
Regards,
Simon
|
|
|
Post by felixs on Sept 16, 2017 12:05:15 GMT
Not sure whether that is the kind of answer you are interested in (probably not), but I do not use these suggested rules. I would love HotT to be DBA-3-'ed, but apparently that is not going to happen in an official version. TomT has done a great job in blending these two rules sets though and his version is usable. If you only want to change standard HotT to bas-width-movement, I guess you could just use only that part from Tom's rules version.
Personally, I have not played HotT since I began to play DBA 3 again. And I probably would rather field fantasy armies under the DBA 3 rules than to do a conversion. But that is just laziness. Tom's rules are great.
|
|
|
Post by Antigonos on Sept 17, 2017 9:51:12 GMT
I'm even more of a heretic soloist, I've converted to hexes
|
|
|
Post by felixs on Sept 17, 2017 10:41:40 GMT
I'm even more of a heretic soloist, I've converted to hexes How do you do this?
|
|
|
Post by Antigonos on Sept 17, 2017 11:01:51 GMT
I'm even more of a heretic soloist, I've converted to hexes How do you do this? First you have to forget everything in the rules about distance measurement to the nearest mm. I'm using Kallistra hex tiles which are 100mm A/F, suits me because I game in several scales. Using the DBA 3 system of base widths and all my HOTT elements are on 60mm wide bases, conversion is pretty straightforward. E.g. move 3BW = 180mm/100mm = 1.8 hexes round it up = 2H. The rounding up or down bit is why precise measurement to the rules has to be thrown out the window. Position within the hex doesn't matter for shooting purposes as it's effectively the hex that's the target. Obviously not a system to everyone's taste, suits me as a solo player and I can get rid of rulers, measuring sticks, etc.
|
|
|
Post by Simon on Sept 17, 2017 11:55:13 GMT
Not sure whether that is the kind of answer you are interested in (probably not), but I do not use these suggested rules. I would love HotT to be DBA-3-'ed, but apparently that is not going to happen in an official version. TomT has done a great job in blending these two rules sets though and his version is usable. If you only want to change standard HotT to bas-width-movement, I guess you could just use only that part from Tom's rules version. Personally, I have not played HotT since I began to play DBA 3 again. And I probably would rather field fantasy armies under the DBA 3 rules than to do a conversion. But that is just laziness. Tom's rules are great. Thanks - all answers are interesting! I will most likely go along with the rules/approach that is most commonly used at UK tournaments. Kind regards, Simon
|
|
|
Post by felixs on Sept 17, 2017 13:41:27 GMT
I will most likely go along with the rules/approach that is most commonly used at UK tournaments. In that case: 100 paces = 1 inch for 15mm (40mm base width) scale.
|
|
|
Post by felixs on Sept 17, 2017 13:43:53 GMT
First you have to forget everything in the rules about distance measurement to the nearest mm. I'm using Kallistra hex tiles which are 100mm A/F, suits me because I game in several scales. Using the DBA 3 system of base widths and all my HOTT elements are on 60mm wide bases, conversion is pretty straightforward. E.g. move 3BW = 180mm/100mm = 1.8 hexes round it up = 2H. The rounding up or down bit is why precise measurement to the rules has to be thrown out the window. Position within the hex doesn't matter for shooting purposes as it's effectively the hex that's the target. Obviously not a system to everyone's taste, suits me as a solo player and I can get rid of rulers, measuring sticks, etc. Thank you. I still cannot imagine how things like overlaps, wheeling etc. are done. But the idea is intriguing. Always liked the idea of the Kallistra fantasy rules too. It is just that I do not want to begin collecting hex terrain tiles.
|
|
|
Post by martin on Sept 17, 2017 14:04:31 GMT
Not sure whether that is the kind of answer you are interested in (probably not), but I do not use these suggested rules. I would love HotT to be DBA-3-'ed, but apparently that is not going to happen in an official version. TomT has done a great job in blending these two rules sets though and his version is usable. If you only want to change standard HotT to bas-width-movement, I guess you could just use only that part from Tom's rules version. Personally, I have not played HotT since I began to play DBA 3 again. And I probably would rather field fantasy armies under the DBA 3 rules than to do a conversion. But that is just laziness. Tom's rules are great. Thanks - all answers are interesting! I will most likely go along with the rules/approach that is most commonly used at UK tournaments. Kind regards, Simon 'Standard' inches is the 'standard' in UK competitions. The Basewidth movement suggestion from Mr Barker was discussed at length on the Yahoo Hott forum. Verdict seemed to be that it was untried, untested and likely to cause some serious issues, eg due to the enormous flee distance of flyers etc. martin
|
|
|
Post by paulisper on Sept 17, 2017 17:08:10 GMT
Verdict seemed to be that it was likely to cause some serious issues, eg due to the enormous flee distance of flyers etc. Well, I have heard that they don't like it up 'em... P.
|
|
|
Post by lkmjbc on Sept 17, 2017 17:47:55 GMT
Verdict seemed to be that it was likely to cause some serious issues, eg due to the enormous flee distance of flyers etc. Well, I have heard that they don't like it up 'em... P. As with most of the "controversy" with DBA 3.0/HoTT development... don't believe what you read. I can't say more or I'll rightly be banned from this board. With that out of the way... I have played with extended movement in HoTT for at least 10+ years. Well before DBA 3.0 was developed. So, it has been tested extensively. I find the extended movement superior in every way... Yes, I do recommend larger boards... or cutting flyer movement down slightly. Unfortunately, the bad feeling generated by some have taken any option for improvement from us. I have even spoken with folks that thought Phil's mentioning of optional BW movement in the new HoTT rules "completely ruined them". Just the mention mind you. Yes, I am still astounded by this. So, the short movement distances remain a standard for tournament play. I recommend using BWs for club(large) and multiplayer games (the only non-tourney HoTT games I play). Tom's Fire and Ice game is quite fun and is vision of what HoTT could have been. Joe Collins
|
|
|
Post by martin on Sept 17, 2017 19:30:08 GMT
I stand corrected, as ever...... (but you still won't see any BW movement competitions in the UK at the mo....).
M
|
|
|
Post by medievalthomas on Sept 18, 2017 18:14:27 GMT
Like Joe I used BW movement even with Old HOTT and it worked fine for 25mm (but we used larger 4X4 tables).
Phil cannot upgrade HOTT because he has an obstinate co-author (who's got IP rights).
I've done a supplement to DBA 3.0 called D3H2 which merges the two rule systems (where rules conflict I used DBA 3.0 mechnisms). It has a large community as you can see from posts here and is well tested - I get feedback and fix stuff as we go. I don't post on the yahoo HOTT group anymore though for obvious reasons (I'm a testing and evidence based designer).
One of the great ironies of the HOTT/DBA 3.0 controversy is that while the new ideas in DBA 3.0 help that game, they are 5 times more helpful in HOTT providing greater troop variation and more dynamics.
As to table size/BW distance: I do recommend 5BW for Mage and Art range and 10BW for Flyers. If playing in 25mm it allows you to use a "normal" 12"/30 ruler and mark it off in 5 60mm segements. Likewise putting command range at 5BW/10BW helps for using "a stick" measruements.
For the more adventerous, I've done a complete DBX upgrade for the latter middle ages which includes a full Fantistorical section. Its called A Game of Knights and Knaves. The Game of Fire and Ice edition is already on WargameVault (with the Old World edition to follow). (Appreciate the positive comments from players and yes I'm about to put out a second edition - free to all buyers - based on feedback. Keep it coming both fantasy and historical - I do pay attention).
D3H2 is free to anyone who has bought a copy of DBA 3.0. Knights and Knaves is a commercial product (but cheap and good...)
You can contact me at:
TomAndKate@aol.com
Thomas J. Thomas Fame and Glory Games
|
|
|
Post by Simon on Sept 19, 2017 6:33:38 GMT
Having been learning and playing DBA v3 over the past couple of years and just embarking on HOTT 2.1, I was wondering if anyone has done a summary of the headline differences in game mechanics between the two games? Not so much things like the troop types, inches instead of BW or element combat factors and outcomes but rather HOTT 2.1 examples such as groups being able to contact a single element on its corner and make it conform, withdrawing from combat, being destroyed if unable to recoil full distance and not turning to avoid a table edge if fleeing.
I appreciate that there is the D3H2 option but I am picking up that the majority of my DBA v3 colleagues in the UK play HOTT 2.1 and so that is the way I am planning to go.
Such a summary would help me getting the games mixed up!
Thanks
Simon
Kind regards
Simon
Cheers
Simon
Kind regards,
Simon
|
|
|
Post by martin on Sept 19, 2017 11:09:28 GMT
Having been learning and playing DBA v3 over the past couple of years and just embarking on HOTT 2.1, I was wondering if anyone has done a summary of the headline differences in game mechanics between the two games? Not so much things like the troop types, inches instead of BW or element combat factors and outcomes but rather HOTT 2.1 examples such as groups being able to contact a single element on its corner and make it conform, withdrawing from combat, being destroyed if unable to recoil full distance and not turning to avoid a table edge if fleeing. Such a summary would help me getting the games mixed up! I compiled one for Hott v DBA 2.2 when I started playing. Have e.mailed you a scan- the original disappeared into cyberspace on a pc change a few years ago, and has failed to make any form of contact, so may have been eaten by aliens........... Nanu Nanu M
|
|