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Post by crazycaptain560 on Aug 21, 2017 23:46:21 GMT
Are they more of a liability than a benefit? For just having a +1 to the combat factor, but counting as 2 elements lost, they seem rather weak compared to just having a standard element. Thoughts?
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Post by twrnz on Aug 22, 2017 8:15:11 GMT
They can be extremely powerful in certain situations, and a liability in others.
In both situations they add interest, which is really ideal for some armies as it creates some point of difference. They are also great for the modellers amongst us as the additional depth creates additional opportunities. I for example like my Theban 8Sp and Japanese 6Cv.
6Kn appear reasonably often locally and in my opinion are particularly dangerous due to the quick kill Kn have, assuming they fight against infantry. However, the additional base depth is problematic.
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Post by Simon on Aug 22, 2017 9:39:42 GMT
..and losing a double based general can really spoil your day!
Simon
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Post by goragrad on Aug 22, 2017 10:44:12 GMT
Back burnered, but I have some Thebans primed up for a BBDBA army.
Thinking to put all 6 doubles in one of the three commands. Although the double based generals with side support could be pretty effective spread over all three.
Might not be a particularly good army against the usual KN heavy tourny choices, but might be amusing against some of the others.
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Post by medievalthomas on Aug 22, 2017 22:01:10 GMT
Double based Swiss Blades almost won the 25mm tournament at Historicon - only my son's stout Burgundians survived the double Swiss onslaught.
TomT
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Post by twrnz on Aug 22, 2017 22:19:57 GMT
Back burnered, but I have some Thebans primed up for a BBDBA army. Thinking to put all 6 doubles in one of the three commands. Although the double based generals with side support could be pretty effective spread over all three. Might not be a particularly good army against the usual KN heavy tourny choices, but might be amusing against some of the others. I rather The Thebans are fun to use in period, though I've only used them in standard DBA. The 8Sp General supported by another 8Sp has reasonably high factors when side support is added. However, the loss of the general is crippling. It's actually refreshing to see a few people using hoplite armies, of various descriptions in competitions. Historical refights using hoplite, including the Thebans, were an early means for me to play some of my early mechanics of 3.0 prior to publication. For me 3.0 has greatly improved the hoplite battle, even without 8SP. |
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Post by crazycaptain560 on Aug 23, 2017 2:50:01 GMT
Back burnered, but I have some Thebans primed up for a BBDBA army. Thinking to put all 6 doubles in one of the three commands. Although the double based generals with side support could be pretty effective spread over all three. Might not be a particularly good army against the usual KN heavy tourny choices, but might be amusing against some of the others. I rather The Thebans are fun to use in period, though I've only used them in standard DBA. The 8Sp General supported by another 8Sp has reasonably high factors when side support is added. However, the loss of the general is crippling. It's actually refreshing to see a few people using hoplite armies, of various descriptions in competitions. Historical refights using hoplite, including the Thebans, were an early means for me to play some of my early mechanics of 3.0 prior to publication. For me 3.0 has greatly improved the hoplite battle, even without 8SP. Interesting. Losing a Double Stand General would be in an instant loss correct? 2 for the general and 2 for the stand? |
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Post by twrnz on Aug 23, 2017 4:00:12 GMT
No, the loss of 3 points, so one off.
The loss of a general counts as one extra, so assuming the first double element is the first double element lost it counts as two, and the fact it is a general one more. From then any loss will put you to the limit.
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Post by Haardrada on Aug 23, 2017 20:10:40 GMT
I actually like the double based elements, the Swiss 6Bd are very versatile and in the Late Swiss (a) list have Pk support.
The 6Kn in the League of Constance army can be quite restricted in the main battle-line.
I have recently been weighing up the advantages/disadvantages of 8w, does anyone use them and have any advice?
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Post by timurilank on Aug 23, 2017 21:14:39 GMT
I actually like the double based elements, the Swiss 6Bd are very versatile and in the Late Swiss (a) list have Pk support. The 6Kn in the League of Constance army can be quite restricted in the main battle-line. I have recently been weighing up the advantages/disadvantages of 8w, does anyone use them and have any advice? By 8w, you mean 8Bw?
I like them and have considered collecting the Late Polish, which have two 8Cb. Enemy blade or spear seen to make a bee line toward 4Bw, but having an extra +1 would help certainly help.
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Post by Haardrada on Aug 24, 2017 4:42:55 GMT
I actually like the double based elements, the Swiss 6Bd are very versatile and in the Late Swiss (a) list have Pk support. The 6Kn in the League of Constance army can be quite restricted in the main battle-line. I have recently been weighing up the advantages/disadvantages of 8w, does anyone use them and have any advice? By 8w, you mean 8Bw?
I like them and have considered collecting the Late Polish, which have two 8Cb. Enemy blade or spear seen to make a bee line toward 4Bw, but having an extra +1 would help certainly help.
They could get an additional +1 against foot if flank supported by steady Bd...as long as the Bd don't recoil or persue too far to offer flank or overlap instead.lol |
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Post by Antigonos on Aug 24, 2017 8:01:49 GMT
Certainly my preferred method for phalanx-type fighters these days, look better and the opportunity for deeper bases provides added protection to the figures.
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Post by goragrad on Aug 24, 2017 11:22:28 GMT
Back burnered, but I have some Thebans primed up for a BBDBA army. Thinking to put all 6 doubles in one of the three commands. Although the double based generals with side support could be pretty effective spread over all three. Might not be a particularly good army against the usual KN heavy tourny choices, but might be amusing against some of the others. I rather The Thebans are fun to use in period, though I've only used them in standard DBA. The 8Sp General supported by another 8Sp has reasonably high factors when side support is added. However, the loss of the general is crippling. It's actually refreshing to see a few people using hoplite armies, of various descriptions in competitions. Historical refights using hoplite, including the Thebans, were an early means for me to play some of my early mechanics of 3.0 prior to publication. For me 3.0 has greatly improved the hoplite battle, even without 8SP. Actually in BBDBA if I go with all of the double elements in one larger command I can reduce the impact of losing that general a bit. Of course first I have to get them ready to play. |
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Post by twrnz on Aug 24, 2017 23:43:41 GMT
Actually in BBDBA if I go with all of the double elements in one larger command I can reduce the impact of losing that general a bit. Of course first I have to get them ready to play. Not only is the tactic sensible it replicates the historical deployment! The best of both worlds. |
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Post by goragrad on Aug 25, 2017 10:44:16 GMT
The phalanx was the norm.
Combined arm kampfgruppes of hoplites don't seem to have been a Greek option.
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