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Post by mellis1644 on Aug 15, 2017 0:20:30 GMT
So we had an odd circumstance happen in a game, which I'm not sure of so thought I'd ask. If the army baggage is garrisoned by camp followers (modeled on the base so usable to leave the baggage area), can a different friendly element enter the baggage during the game? Obviously, if the baggage is empty it can do so. But camp followers don't count as an element for the army or if they die in V3. Also a real element starting an army baggage replaces the camp follower. So, what about moving into/through a baggage area if the camp followers are present. Does the real element just replace/displace the camp followers, or is the camp full - meaning they can't enter the camp? Either way this did not really effect our game but we checked the rules and could not find any clear statement on this point. So I thought I would ask here.  |
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Post by bob on Aug 15, 2017 1:57:47 GMT
Just so we are talking the same language, let me mention that there is no "Baggage" in DBA. There is possibly a camp. A camp is not an element, but the logistic component of an army.
So I think the question is, if there are figures attached (modeled) on the base can they leave. No. If there is a separate camp follower base, then that base can leave the camp.
If an element from the army of 12 enters the camp, the camp followers are taken away.
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Post by mellis1644 on Aug 15, 2017 12:49:20 GMT
Ha I changed camp to baggage as I though that as the right term - no rules with me here.  I understand that the camp followers on the base can't leave but can I replace them with another unit in a game? ie. as an actual example. I have a camp with modeled followers on the camp base. During the game things don't go well so I want to move a unit of Ps into the camp to get the camp defense bonus. Can I do that or is the fact that the camp already has camp followers followers on the base mean it is full and can;t have another unit in it? |
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Post by timurilank on Aug 15, 2017 13:22:22 GMT
Ha I changed camp to baggage as I though that as the right term - no rules with me here. I understand that the camp followers on the base can't leave but can I replace them with another unit in a game? ie. as an actual example. I have a camp with modeled followers on the camp base. During the game things don't go well so I want to move a unit of Ps into the camp to get the camp defense bonus. Can I do that or is the fact that the camp already has camp followers followers on the base mean it is full and can;t have another unit in it? I would have no problem with the substitution if this were presented as an option for both sides before the start of the game.
It is worth the effort to base two figures to serve as camp followers. These can come from the ‘excess’ bits in your collection, especially the extra command figures. Mine are a variety of types and even have an animal as a replacement; camel, mule, or mastiff.
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Post by bob on Aug 15, 2017 17:52:30 GMT
It all depends on how friendly the game is. If you want to follow the rules exactly then consider this:
"At the start of the game a camp can be occupied by either (a) 1 only non-allied troop element (except Elephants or Scythed chariots), which can subsequently vacate it and may be replaced by another such element, or (b) camp followers (represented either by a camp follower element that can move out of it but without being able to return, or fixed figures that cannot move out of it, but not both). If neither has been provided, it has been left undefended. "
Is A Ps any better at defending a camp than camp followers? Both are a natural + 2 and get a +2 from the camp.
I have been studying about camps from this thread I have the following questions.
1. If an element of the Army is backed up against its own empty camp, is it destroyed if forced to recoil?
2. If a player wants to move an army element into a camp, must he spend 2 pips to move the camp follower out?
3. If a player wants to replace an army element that is in a camp, must he replace it with the same kind of element that already in there? Not too useful. Note that the rule says that if a player replaces an army element in the camp it must be with another "such" element.
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Post by Simon on Aug 16, 2017 9:23:46 GMT
It all depends on how friendly the game is. If you want to follow the rules exactly then consider this: "At the start of the game a camp can be occupied by either (a) 1 only non-allied troop element (except Elephants or Scythed chariots), which can subsequently vacate it and may be replaced by another such element, or (b) camp followers (represented either by a camp follower element that can move out of it but without being able to return, or fixed figures that cannot move out of it, but not both). If neither has been provided, it has been left undefended. " Is A Ps any better at defending a camp than camp followers? Both are a natural + 2 and get a +2 from the camp. I have been studying about camps from this thread I have the following questions. 1. If an element of the Army is backed up against its own empty camp, is it destroyed if forced to recoil? 2. If a player wants to move an army element into a camp, must he spend 2 pips to move the camp follower out? 3. If a player wants to replace an army element that is in a camp, must he replace it with the same kind of element that already in there? Not too useful. Note that the rule says that if a player replaces an army element in the camp it must be with another "such" element. My thoughts for what they are worth are as follows: Q1 - Yes - see P10 third paragraph under RECOILING OR BEING PUSHED BACK section Q2 - I think (but far from sure) that if you want to keep the camp follower element on the table, you pay the pips but if you are happy to just disperse it, then pips do not need to be expended. Q3 I do not think it has to be an identical element. I suggest that "another such element" is referring to the fact that it needs to be non-allied element and not El or SCh. Regards Simon |
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Post by bob on Aug 16, 2017 15:30:53 GMT
Thanks for the comments. Yes indeed I saw page 10/3rd paragraph. My question had to do with an unoccupied camp versus an occupied one. Do we think that it makes no difference whether the camp is occupied or not. An element can enter into its own unoccupied camp but cannot recoil into it?
regarding displaced camp followers. I cannot find any rule that says a regular troop type can enter the camp and disperse the camp followers. There was such a specific rule in DBA2.
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Post by Simon on Aug 16, 2017 16:30:51 GMT
I took the recoil v camps rule on p10 literally as it didn't specify whether occupied or not - but I do see your point.
I'm not sure where I picked up the idea about elements displacing camp followers - it can't be a memory from v2 as I have only played v3! Perhaps it was picked up from an ex-v3 player...
I look forward to others' thoughts.
Simon
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