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Post by twrnz on Apr 19, 2017 4:41:18 GMT
Last night's game, a BBDBA affair, found my opponent using Post Mongol Samurai with a significant number of fast pike. I was surprised how resilient his centre was against my centre which contained similar numbers of solid pike. Perhaps one of the interesting aspects was the impacts of recoils in the game due to base depth differences.
What are other people's views on the benefits and weaknesses of fast pike compared to their solid brethren?
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Post by martin on Apr 19, 2017 11:29:43 GMT
Last night's game, a BBDBA affair, found my opponent using Post Mongol Samurai with a significant number of fast pike. I was surprised how resilient his centre was against my centre which contained similar numbers of solid pike. Perhaps one of the interesting aspects was the impacts of recoils in the game due to base depth differences. What are other people's views on the benefits and weaknesses of fast pike compared to their solid brethren? Benefits- super-fast, close down an enemy rapidly before he has a chance to counter, race through bow range quick, useful to zip through RG. Drawbacks- possibly the only one I can think of is:- tendency to 'bounce off' solid foot, leaving their colleagues overlapped. I've used North Welsh, Pre-Feudal Scots and Picts with some degree of success, and would choose 3Pk over 4Pk in many situations, for the reasons given above, and also because my gaming 'style', such as it is, tends to involve getting in the enemy's face ASAP to give him as little chance as possible to spend his PIPs where he wants to. If needing to fight a defensive battle, then I guess the 4Pk might be handy, as they can recoil opponents a tad more easily. Cheers Martin (NB- Those I game with tend to have rebased on 20mm deep, so base difference not relevant to my comments). |
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Post by twrnz on Apr 19, 2017 23:04:20 GMT
Your views are similar too mine on fast pike but I've not fought so many before.
On the basing front I am basing all new solid foot on 20mm deep bases. However, I haven't as yet started rebasing the Hellenic armies. Such a decision means a significant amount of work...
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Post by gregorius on Apr 20, 2017 0:37:10 GMT
Keith, I've made a conscious decision not to go back and rebase my 15mm deep bases. Just too much work involved. From now on I'll be using 20mm deep bases.
Cheers,
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Post by twrnz on Apr 20, 2017 1:30:00 GMT
One of the advantages of rebasing my Hellenic pike would be that currently I can never get them in contact with the enemy - the old Tin Soldier pikes have a slightly forward facing aspect. I think the extra 5mm would be very useful especially when I provide both armies.
But still a big job when there is so many other things to paint...
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Post by Haardrada on Nov 1, 2017 15:00:50 GMT
Note...even thought 3Pk are fast be very careful not to be caught or pushed into Bad Going..the -2 combat modifier could be murderous.
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Post by phippsy on Nov 1, 2017 16:19:23 GMT
Yes - this quite a challenge that starting to face with Pre Feudal Scots and Later North Welsh. It appears that trying to load with rough rather than difficult terrain works better.
The 3Pk can keep formation and off balance enemy mounted and solid foot, try and get to good going where they try and fight at some advantage. In rough they are also protected somewhat against English Kn where they cannot be destroyed by quick kill.
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Post by twrnz on Nov 1, 2017 18:41:05 GMT
Note...even thought 3Pk are fast be very careful not to be caught or pushed into Bad Going..the -2 combat modifier could be murderous. Yes, bad going can be deadly. I’ve managed to move through it on occasion, but twice I’ve been caught in it. |
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Post by macbeth on Nov 1, 2017 22:18:14 GMT
Yes - this quite a challenge that starting to face with Pre Feudal Scots and Later North Welsh. It appears that trying to load with rough rather than difficult terrain works better. The 3Pk can keep formation and off balance enemy mounted and solid foot, try and get to good going where they try and fight at some advantage. In rough they are also protected somewhat against English Kn where they cannot be destroyed by quick kill. But don't forget that whilst the fast Pk can move in rough they do not get their rear support unless in good going  Not something you want to learn the hard way Cheers |
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Post by sheffmark on Nov 2, 2017 9:32:36 GMT
I've seen the discussion about changing base depths before. I presume the only difference this makes is that it may break a group up when you recoil?
As a matter of clarification in 'Recoiling or Being Pushed Back' it says "A recoiling foot element always moves it's own base depth or 1/2 BW if this is less than it's base depth"
Are people playing it that you have the choice of recoiling your actual base depth, i.e. 15mm if you're on a smaller base, (assuming 15mm figures) or do you have to recoil the 1/2 BW?
If the later and you're on 15mm deep bases I can see how a group could break up.
But are there any other issues?
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Post by martin on Nov 2, 2017 9:44:50 GMT
Yes - this quite a challenge that starting to face with Pre Feudal Scots and Later North Welsh. It appears that trying to load with rough rather than difficult terrain works better. The 3Pk can keep formation and off balance enemy mounted and solid foot, try and get to good going where they try and fight at some advantage. In rough they are also protected somewhat against English Kn where they cannot be destroyed by quick kill. Yes indeed. Losing any rear support in rough going is a potential 'gotcha'.. I enjoy 3Pk armies - much mayhem - but have to be very careful where they operate ie NOT on the difficult hills you'd expect them to thrive in. (?? wonder why ??) |
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Post by martin on Nov 2, 2017 13:32:15 GMT
As written, if you're on 15mm deep bases you recoil 15mm (though you would pursue 20mm).
Not the clearest writing, but it does imply you only go back 15mm, even if 20mm would be more convenient.
Martin
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Post by medievalthomas on Nov 10, 2017 17:36:30 GMT
Yes the current rule for Foot is that you Recoil a base depth or 1/2BW which ever is shorter (as always that's my best educated guess at to what the rule means).
Mounted may choose, however, and Pursuits are by BWs. Sounder rule would have been to just allow both to choose (and less confusing). This was the rule in development but one of the old timer playtesters objected to not using Base Depth as a measuring tool (as opposed to a 1/2BW marker), so we got the convuluted compromise of the current rule. If your not in a tournament environment and some players are going to base 15mm figures on 20mm bases anyway, allowing Foot to have choice like Mounted seems like a very good idea. That way it would make no difference if an "old" basing army meet a new fangled 20mm based army.
TomT
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