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Post by lkmjbc on Jun 13, 2016 21:53:52 GMT
Question: Is 3 Bd overpowered?
We haven't seen it much in our local gaming club or in the tournaments I have run...
Still 3Bd moves quickly and suffers little against most foot and mounted elements... is it too powerful?
Joe Collins
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hdan
Munifex
Posts: 35 
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Post by hdan on Jun 13, 2016 22:13:56 GMT
They're certainly tough. Against Spears, they have the "bounce on a tie" problem, and have to follow up, but they're also roughly equivalent to 3Ax in bad going or against mounted in GG.
I'll (eventually) be playing some "3Bd vs. Sp" games (Norse vs. Saxons), so I may have some more evidence about their effectiveness.
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Post by martin on Jun 14, 2016 5:17:11 GMT
They're something of a favoured troop type among many in the local circle. Speed through bad going terrain, unaffected by rough terrain, quick kill on draw vs Kn, high combat factor in close combat, close down Bw quickly. Useful. Especially handy from littoral, as can penetrate deep into enemy territory. Terrain abilities of 3Wb without the brittleness.
Too powerful? Not sure. All depends on the opposition and the terrain on the board really. Can struggle in head to head v Solid, as Dangun mentioned. Can have a really bad day against Kn/HCh. Do they model a particular historical type, as such?
Martin
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Post by vodnik on Jun 14, 2016 8:31:36 GMT
...during DBM time 3Bd used to be bad going blade, quite a useful troop type but under DBA3 it seems to be a poor troop type...
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Post by lkmjbc on Jun 15, 2016 22:06:00 GMT
...during DBM time 3Bd used to be bad going blade, quite a useful troop type but under DBA3 it seems to be a poor troop type... I'm not sure I understand. Why to you think they are poor? The are blazing fast... QK Knights on a ties... and they fight foot at a +5? Have you seen them easily defeated? Joe Collins |
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Post by medievalthomas on Jun 16, 2016 17:28:29 GMT
We have used them on several occasions and for Verneuil I interpreted a French source's reference to "Scottish Axeman" as Fast Blades so have seen them preform in many of our playtest games for that Great Battles chapter.
We also use them to represent the Iron Born in our Ice and Fire games.
Maybe not completely dominante but certainly not a "bad" troop type. Well above average.
TomT
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Post by timurilank on Jun 17, 2016 5:30:54 GMT
Question: Is 3 Bd overpowered? We haven't seen it much in our local gaming club or in the tournaments I have run... Still 3Bd moves quickly and suffers little against most foot and mounted elements... is it too powerful? Joe Collins We have not had an opportunity to use the Celtiberians. Next Tuesday we meet to test the siege game rules and will add a straight battle between them and the consular army. Will let you know how they fare.
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Post by lkmjbc on Jun 18, 2016 1:39:20 GMT
Question: Is 3 Bd overpowered? We haven't seen it much in our local gaming club or in the tournaments I have run... Still 3Bd moves quickly and suffers little against most foot and mounted elements... is it too powerful? Joe Collins We have not had an opportunity to use the Celtiberians. Next Tuesday we meet to test the siege game rules and will add a straight battle between them and the consular army. Will let you know how they fare.
Robert: I look forward to your report. Joe Collins |
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Post by timurilank on Jun 23, 2016 16:16:46 GMT
We have not had an opportunity to use the Celtiberians. Next Tuesday we meet to test the siege game rules and will add a straight battle between them and the consular army. Will let you know how they fare.
Robert: I look forward to your report. Joe Collins Joe,
The battle report and photos can be read at the blog. It was a very long game. dbagora.blogspot.nl/2016/06/consulararmy-vs.html
Cheers, Robert
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Post by lkmjbc on Jun 23, 2016 21:45:47 GMT
SO, Robert... though one game isn't much of a sample... what is your opinion... Joe Collins |
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Post by timurilank on Jun 23, 2016 23:02:23 GMT
SO, Robert... though one game isn't much of a sample... what is your opinion... Joe Collins Consular army vs. Celtiberia.
One game is certainly not a large sample but the duration of the game (10 turns) did offer a variety of combat situations that are worth looking at closely.
The Celtiberian as defender had the advantage of terrain and their choice of wood and difficult hills meant combats should not stray outside the command distance and remain in sight. This actually worked in their favour as the initial attacks were done in groups and not as individual elements.
The two 3Bd on either flank were relentless against the allied wings (4Ax + Ps) as they destroyed four elements on their own, but in the centre the 3Bd did not perform as well against the legion (4Bd). Here, the Celtiberian was consistently losing ground against the solid blade, which is as it should be.
Out of the wood and without the advantage of the hill, the Celtiberian threat was easily contained by Roman and allied cavalry, even Livy mentions the Spanish as not wanting to meet the Romans on the open battlefield, preferring wooded and hilly areas.
In the context of our campaign they have certainly earned a healthy respect and I am sure there are scribes adding pages to the manuals as to how best to deal with the Celtiberian. They would certainly perform well in historical themed tournaments.
Cheers, Robert
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Post by Haardrada on Jun 26, 2016 9:24:36 GMT
I prefer 3Bd in my Late Swiss IV/79 b army (but I use 6Bd for option a.😊), as they are an excellent counter to Mtd Lb and small numbers of 4Aux in Historical opponnent armies.They are also good against Wwg but be careful of recoiling on a draw which leaves you vulnerable to shooting in your opponents bound.3Bd can also suppliment you Ps in Bad/Rough terrain.
They are useful in pinning part of an enemy line until your Pk lumber in and protect their flanks well too.
I use them as a mobile reserve too as their fast movement doesnt just speed them through terrain.Even placing a 3Bd in a fort if your defending can reasonably protect a flank with the added threat you can "sortie" out against exposed flanks or just sit back and draw off troops from an enemy line.
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