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Post by wjhupp on Feb 17, 2017 14:36:53 GMT
We expect to have a number of new DBA players trying out DBA at Adoption next month (See details in Tournaments.)
When teaching new players, one of the comments I get is "How do I start the game in terms of set up?"
I encourage them to keep their elements together for pip management purposes, but then it really depends on the army and the overall plan. And this is different depending on the army and its opponents. I am new to these Book I armies, so any thoughts on NKE, Hittites and other Book I armies would be appreciated.
Specifically with NKE, which generic set up do you prefer (and the tactical plan)?
1- 2 Chariots on each flank, archers next to them and blades in the middle? (Balanced approach, beat them on match ups that present themselves.)
2- Blades in the middle and archers on the flanks and Chariots behind in reserve? (Defensive with offensive follow up by chariots on one or both flanks.)
3- Chariots all on one flank as a strike force and infantry on the other with archers and PS as hinge force? (Offensive approach to cause advantaged flank attack or let the good infantry come up and grind.)
Since many of the combats will be littoral, the battlefield is even a little more narrow than 24 inches.
Bill
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Post by wjhupp on Feb 18, 2017 23:32:18 GMT
In case a picture makes this easier to address. I have 4 different armies in 4 different starting formations. Attachments:
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Post by timurilank on Feb 22, 2017 21:24:48 GMT
In case a picture makes this easier to address. I have 4 different armies in 4 different starting formations. Bill,
I rather like the idea of a 'handbook' with photos with deployment options.
That is what I enjoy most about the historical match ups, these function as a reference for not only deployment, but the terrain placement.
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Post by Haardrada on May 15, 2017 9:20:16 GMT
We expect to have a number of new DBA players trying out DBA at Adoption next month (See details in Tournaments.) When teaching new players, one of the comments I get is "How do I start the game in terms of set up?" I encourage them to keep their elements together for pip management purposes, but then it really depends on the army and the overall plan. And this is different depending on the army and its opponents. I am new to these Book I armies, so any thoughts on NKE, Hittites and other Book I armies would be appreciated.
Specifically with NKE, which generic set up do you prefer (and the tactical plan)? 1- 2 Chariots on each flank, archers next to them and blades in the middle? (Balanced approach, beat them on match ups that present themselves.) 2- Blades in the middle and archers on the flanks and Chariots behind in reserve? (Defensive with offensive follow up by chariots on one or both flanks.) 3- Chariots all on one flank as a strike force and infantry on the other with archers and PS as hinge force? (Offensive approach to cause advantaged flank attack or let the good infantry come up and grind.) Since many of the combats will be littoral, the battlefield is even a little more narrow than 24 inches. Bill Which NKE army do you favour? The early (a)list has more mobile foot and more archers, while the (b) list is slower but steadier offering more side support from solid Bd for the archers,but less bad going troops? |
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Post by sheffmark on May 15, 2017 11:56:42 GMT
On balance I think a) is slightly better. You can always go with the heavy axe men option to give at least 2 of your 4Bw some side support.
Interesting you say the b) list offers fewer bad going troops. The b) list offers 3Wb and a Ps, the a) list has just 1 Ps. So presumably you're counting 3Bd and or 4Bw in the bad going troops total? That could be a whole other discussion!
Going back to the original question, surely the terrain and opponent will have a major role in determining the set up and plan? Although the bottom lay out looks like you may need a lot of PIPS to get your chariots out and into action?
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Post by Haardrada on May 15, 2017 21:02:43 GMT
On balance I think a) is slightly better. You can always go with the heavy axe men option to give at least 2 of your 4Bw some side support. Interesting you say the b) list offers fewer bad going troops. The b) list offers 3Wb and a Ps, the a) list has just 1 Ps. So presumably you're counting 3Bd and or 4Bw in the bad going troops total? That could be a whole other discussion! Going back to the original question, surely the terrain and opponent will have a major role in determining the set up and plan? Although the bottom lay out looks like you may need a lot of PIPS to get your chariots out and into action? The 3Bd I regard as Bad going troops as they are not slowed by the Bad going and the -2 combat modifier for Bd in Bad going does not significantly weaken them as they are still equal in Aux unless they are solid.It is the pip drain if not in column that is the problem. The Bw do not receive the -2 modifier in Bad going and are quite potent uphill on any difficult hill, being slow does not matter as they need only move 1 Bw to be able to fire and are only hindered by firing distances.,again it is the pip drain that can hinder an advance. As to the photo of the deployments,they are impressive but Littorial or Arable deployment of Historical opponents could see the long lines broken up by bad going.The deployment in depth with counter-attack options imho are more favourable. |
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Post by wjhupp on May 16, 2017 17:14:52 GMT
Sorry to be so slow in responding. Got caught up in the tournament itself and other activities.
Timurlink, I would find a deployemnt handbook to be that a very nice add to the Fanaticus website and a nice way to display armies photographically. It would also to add any introductory materails to get new people into the game. Reminds me of chess books on openings.
We had mostly (a)'s at the tournament, mostly because they were my armies that were borrowed and were in the pictures. I asked the guy who brought the one (b) army and he just wanted a bit more flavor in the army he painted.
We got a lot of games in the tournament with these armies but I was too busy to draw any conclusions. T
The comment on the terrain impacting things greatly is right on. I may continue this thread with some photos using the terrain squares we used.
Bill
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Post by wjhupp on May 16, 2017 17:24:42 GMT
Looking over the photos I do have, I did not see any predominance of deployment. Charoits all together and on right, center and left seemed to be equally used to chariots on both ends of the line in a typical Horse on the flanks deployment. (A link to some photos below.) Bill www.flickr.com/photos/141703864@N07/albums/72157681961523795 |
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Post by sheffmark on May 25, 2017 13:07:17 GMT
On balance I think a) is slightly better. You can always go with the heavy axe men option to give at least 2 of your 4Bw some side support. Interesting you say the b) list offers fewer bad going troops. The b) list offers 3Wb and a Ps, the a) list has just 1 Ps. So presumably you're counting 3Bd and or 4Bw in the bad going troops total? That could be a whole other discussion! Going back to the original question, surely the terrain and opponent will have a major role in determining the set up and plan? Although the bottom lay out looks like you may need a lot of PIPS to get your chariots out and into action? The 3Bd I regard as Bad going troops as they are not slowed by the Bad going and the -2 combat modifier for Bd in Bad going does not significantly weaken them as they are still equal in Aux unless they are solid.It is the pip drain if not in column that is the problem. The Bw do not receive the -2 modifier in Bad going and are quite potent uphill on any difficult hill, being slow does not matter as they need only move 1 Bw to be able to fire and are only hindered by firing distances.,again it is the pip drain that can hinder an advance. As to the photo of the deployments,they are impressive but Littorial or Arable deployment of Historical opponents could see the long lines broken up by bad going.The deployment in depth with counter-attack options imho are more favourable. Yes I agree with the 3Bd option for bad going, just be careful of any warband!
Not so convinced about Bows though, as they have seriously restricted shooting ability in a lot of terrain (1/2BW on a difficult hill and others) and could be bested by a line of Ps in a straight contest as the Bw wouldn't normally count overlaps. Plus the 4Bw option for the NKE doesn't help much in a race for a crest against enemy Ax.
However on balance I think I still prefer option a).
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Post by Haardrada on May 25, 2017 16:54:30 GMT
Not so convinced about Bows though, as they have seriously restricted shooting ability in a lot of terrain (1/2BW on a difficult hill and others) and could be bested by a line of Ps in a straight contest as the Bw wouldn't normally count overlaps. Plus the 4Bw option for the NKE doesn't help much in a race for a crest against enemy Ax. [/p] But if the Bow elements are on the steep hill and within 1/2 BW of the hill edge they....can shoot 3 Bw from the hill or gain the +1 modifier against downhill opponnents....worth the risk sometimes.😉 Yes the Bw cost a pip each to move but once in place they can be a serious threat. |
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