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Post by phippsy on Dec 26, 2016 11:04:25 GMT
Under recoiling, page 12 para 4, there is reference to recoiling or pushed back elements meeting terrain it cannot enter, or if already in contact is with terrain it cannot enter, then destroyed. I have been trying to work out what terrain this could be. All elements can go into all terrain. I could only think of non foot elements recoiling into a fort. What are the possible examples where this occurs and elements cannot enter certain terrain?
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Post by vodnik on Dec 26, 2016 11:20:19 GMT
...try to walk on the water
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Post by timurilank on Dec 26, 2016 11:43:29 GMT
...try to walk on the water Many did in December of 406 AD crossing the Rhine.
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Post by vodnik on Dec 26, 2016 12:33:49 GMT
...yes, but then the water was frozen; bad gaing...
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Post by phippsy on Dec 26, 2016 16:17:50 GMT
Excellent - so one can recoil into a river as it is terrain that can be entered...
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Post by martin on Dec 26, 2016 19:20:01 GMT
Can't enter a waterway, eg. M
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Post by phippsy on Dec 26, 2016 20:37:12 GMT
Martin - thanks. Could you point me in the direction of where that is in the DBA 3.0 useful to have the reference.
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Post by bob on Dec 26, 2016 20:51:33 GMT
Helping out Martin here, In the terrain section under linear terrain: "LINEAR TERRAIN FEATURES include Waterways, Rivers and Roads. A Waterway represents the sea, a lake edge or a river too wide and deep to be fordable and is impassable." By the way NO element can recoil into a Fort, City or camp. "A recoiling or pushed back element whose rear edge or rear corner meets terrain it cannot enter, a battlefield edge, friends it cannot pass through or push back, enemy or a city, fort or camp ends its move there. An element already in such contact with any of these cannot recoil and is destroyed instead. "
Don't forget the DBA rules can be used for scenario games that include impassable terrain features.
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Post by martin on Dec 27, 2016 15:51:23 GMT
Like Bob sez....... City/Fort/Camp blocks recoil, as does Wwy.
I THINK, but am not sure, that wheeled heavy items (artillery/warwagons) ARE allowed to recoil into bad going which they may not make a tactical move in (but not totally sure....maybe Joe C can clarify?).
Keep it up, Phippsy.....got us all thinking :-)
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Post by Cromwell on Dec 28, 2016 7:32:17 GMT
Like Bob sez....... City/Fort/Camp blocks recoil, as does Wwy. I THINK, but am not sure, that wheeled heavy items (artillery/warwagons) ARE allowed to recoil into bad going which they may not make a tactical move in (but not totally sure....maybe Joe C can clarify?). Keep it up, Phippsy.....got us all thinking :-) That was my understanding as well. But I have been known to be wrong....in fact with monotonous regularity
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Post by lkmjbc on Dec 29, 2016 17:55:18 GMT
Like Bob sez....... City/Fort/Camp blocks recoil, as does Wwy. I THINK, but am not sure, that wheeled heavy items (artillery/warwagons) ARE allowed to recoil into bad going which they may not make a tactical move in (but not totally sure....maybe Joe C can clarify?). Keep it up, Phippsy.....got us all thinking :-) That was my understanding as well. But I have been known to be wrong....in fact with monotonous regularity I would probably say "no" off the cuff... well, in fact I just did. While the rule against Artillery and Warwagons moving into bad going is in an odd place... it is pretty emphatic. Plus, how would one move out? No tactical move is allowed. Would you be stuck? Seems that making this impassible makes sense. Joe Collins
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Post by menacussecundus on Dec 29, 2016 18:17:30 GMT
That was my understanding as well. But I have been known to be wrong....in fact with monotonous regularity I would probably say "no" off the cuff... well, in fact I just did. While the rule against Artillery and Warwagons moving into bad going is in an odd place... it is pretty emphatic. Plus, how would one move out? No tactical move is allowed. Would you be stuck? Seems that making this impassible makes sense. Joe Collins A simpler answer is that Artillery doesn't recoil. (It is destroyed/QK'd.)
Warwagons can't deploy or move off-road in bad going. Ergo they cannot enter it; and if an element starts in rear edge or rear corner contact with terrain it cannot enter, it cannot recoil and is destroyed instead.
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Post by bob on Dec 29, 2016 19:41:22 GMT
I'm curious to know under what circumstances a war wagon might be forced to recoil?
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Post by menacussecundus on Dec 29, 2016 20:52:32 GMT
I'm curious to know under what circumstances a war wagon might be forced to recoil? You are right, Bob. Warwagons don't recoil. If they don't win the combat, either they are destroyed or the result has no effect. ( Mr Smith's fertile brain has been leading some of us up the garden path.)
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Post by martin on Dec 30, 2016 13:58:16 GMT
Very hypothetical....but here goes :-
Warwagon on right flank, facing left flank, ie 90 degrees from facing front. A single enemy element is to its front, in its threat zone. A group friendly to the WWG advances, with its right front corner lined up with the WWG's front left corner. The group contacts the single enemy element and draws in to conform. The conform results in the WWG forming a hard-flank on the single element.
The single element wins combat. The elements to its front and flank (the wwg) recoil. About the only way I can see a WWG in a situation where it is the flanking element and would be obliged to recoil.
Very tenuous.....
M
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