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Post by sonic on Jun 15, 2019 18:41:05 GMT
Hi all. I'm thinking of building a I/14g army, the "I". But I can't find any information concerning them anywhere. Does anyone now where to find anything about them? Cheers.
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Post by sonic on Jun 17, 2019 18:04:46 GMT
The silence on here is deafening!!
Think I'm right in assuming there's not much out there, so imagination and information on the contemporary Chinese it is!!
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Post by twrnz on Jun 17, 2019 20:35:54 GMT
I have no information but wonder if there is anything in the “Ancient Chinese Armies” by Peers. Often the sources listed in the list are a reasonable starting point.
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Post by goragrad on Jun 18, 2019 9:43:32 GMT
I think you have it sonic - even looking at the Peers bibliography as twrnz suggests doesn't show much potential.
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Post by sonic on Jun 18, 2019 14:25:12 GMT
Checked Peers and the WRG book. Can't find anything ....
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Post by timurilank on Jun 18, 2019 20:04:07 GMT
Having no clue as to who or where this was about lead me to a brief investigation. I now know now that the Huai Valley was an important region for rice and millet farming which pre-dates the army list I/14g. Clothing may not have been different from its main opponents and looking at 28mm Shang Chinese armies I pulled up interesting photos. This one pictures a unit wearing a knee length tunic tied at the waist, bare legged and armed with spear/javelin and shield.
Presumably, these represent the town dwelling and rural commoners conscripted to serve as soldiers, This is very generic and may serve for the people of the Huai valley.
www.greatescapegames.co.uk/miniatures/miniatures-painted/painted-chinspr1.html
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Post by paulhannah on Jun 19, 2019 0:55:40 GMT
From the scant info available, I built my I/14g "I Army" from 15mm Essex Chinese Barbarians (mostly CHO20 & CHO21). I used the image in the Osprey, CJ Peers book to suggest a plausible color palette and ideas for shield patterns. They painted up quickly, but I also didn't lavish too much detail on them.
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Post by sonic on Jun 19, 2019 9:00:54 GMT
Having no clue as to who or where this was about lead me to a brief investigation. I now know now that the Huai Valley was an important region for rice and millet farming which pre-dates the army list I/14g. Clothing may not have been different from its main opponents and looking at 28mm Shang Chinese armies I pulled up interesting photos. This one pictures a unit wearing a knee length tunic tied at the waist, bare legged and armed with spear/javelin and shield.
Presumably, these represent the town dwelling and rural commoners conscripted to serve as soldiers, This is very generic and may serve for the people of the Huai valley.
www.greatescapegames.co.uk/miniatures/miniatures-painted/painted-chinspr1.html
Hi T. Thanks for the info and link. Looks like I'm right in that there is little-no information specifically.
Paulhannah, nice looking army. I think you're right to use the CJ Peers book to suggest a colour palette etc. I'm thinking of using MY Miniatures 'Early Northern Barbarian' figures, so shouldn't need too much in the way of specific detail.
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aristonicus
Munifex
The man from Lucania returns..
Posts: 25
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Post by aristonicus on Jun 19, 2019 9:07:56 GMT
I did a bit of research some years back on this people, as I was intrigued by a picture I saw in an old history book in their chapter on the Shang Dynasty. It depicted a battle between the Shang (in red with bronze helmets and with chariots and war elephants) and the "green-clad Tung-I" with bows and bronze helmets. (This book seemed to be a compilation of a book series, quite similar to the Time-Life "Great Ages of Man"; I think it was called the "Emergence of Man" and had all these lavish paintings re-constructing the Minoans, Mycenaeans etc.) In any case, the "I" or "Tung-I" (Wade-Giles) is now usually anglicized as "Yi" or "Dongyi" (Pinyin). The tradition that their main distinguishing feature was as bowmen entered the written language. Note that they are not described as wearing skins. That implies that the Yi wore clothes instead - of course, they would have worn them "buttoned on the left" the opposite of the Chinese style. Possibly some interesting stuff here: worldwidemystery.blogspot.com/2013/11/quest-of-feathered-people-different.htmlspooksrus.tripod.com/barbarians/zhou_dynasty_barbarians.html
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Post by sonic on Jun 19, 2019 11:28:01 GMT
I did a bit of research some years back on this people, as I was intrigued by a picture I saw in an old history book in their chapter on the Shang Dynasty. It depicted a battle between the Shang (in red with bronze helmets and with chariots and war elephants) and the "green-clad Tung-I" with bows and bronze helmets. (This book seemed to be a compilation of a book series, quite similar to the Time-Life "Great Ages of Man"; I think it was called the "Emergence of Man" and had all these lavish paintings re-constructing the Minoans, Mycenaeans etc.) In any case, the "I" or "Tung-I" (Wade-Giles) is now usually anglicized as "Yi" or "Dongyi" (Pinyin). The tradition that their main distinguishing feature was as bowmen entered the written language. Note that they are not described as wearing skins. That implies that the Yi wore clothes instead - of course, they would have worn them "buttoned on the left" the opposite of the Chinese style. Possibly some interesting stuff here: worldwidemystery.blogspot.com/2013/11/quest-of-feathered-people-different.htmlspooksrus.tripod.com/barbarians/zhou_dynasty_barbarians.htmlWow! Many, many thanks for that information. To say that it is appreciated is an understatement!
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Post by martin on Jun 22, 2019 10:34:29 GMT
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Post by sonic on Jun 24, 2019 8:33:00 GMT
Thank you Martin. Very, very much appreciated! Those links are interesting - even the Incan one! Seems like there's very little information available. Wonder how uncle phil came up with that army list?
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Post by martin on Jun 24, 2019 18:20:47 GMT
> > wonder how uncle phil came up with that army list? Indeed....I’ll ask!
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Post by martin on Jun 24, 2019 18:26:59 GMT
Meanwhile, Duncan Head (yes, ‘the’ Duncan Head....😊 ) has posted.....
“ Re: Early barbarian ‘I’ army...info? « Chris Peers, in his first Chinese Osprey, reconstructed the I or Yi as primitive types in skin kilts - and it is this illustration on which the Essex 15mm "Chinese barbarians" in the Shang and Chou range are based.
However I have never been quite sure what led him to this conclusion, as modern scholars writing on early China are generally of the opinion that the Yi were the most civilized of the surrounding "barbarians", organised into small kingdoms quite similar to the Zhou feudal states and, it would seem, being thoroughly absorbed into the Chinese polity probably before the end of the Western Zhou. See for instance Wikipedia on the Xu state. This suggests that they may have dressed and armed themselves rather more like their Shang-Zhou contemporaries. “
I’ve asked who built the lists....
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Post by martin on Jun 24, 2019 18:29:11 GMT
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