Picking on a pike block - but was it legal?

Have I got it right that at the end of Ptolemy's turn the two pike in column have no enemy to the front - just one contacting their rear and another their flank? If this is the case, doesn't the pike column (both elements) turn to face the first enemy to contact it?

Simon

Yes. I should have stressed this as it means that Joe’s thoughts the rear rank is providing support is not the case in this situation (at least I don’t think it is.).

At the end of Ptolemy’s move we have a pike block facing BG with a 3Kn in frontal contact to its rear and a 3Ax in frontal contact with its flank. Nothing is in contact with its front. The first enemy to contact is the 3Kn to the rear.

From my reading of p12, and looking at figures 14b and 14c, I would say that the rear pike turns to face the Kn, as this is the first element which contacts it, and the front pike also turns as it provide rear support. The Ax would remain as a side flank and this would result in both elements being destroyed if the Kn wins the resulting combat.

Initially, my gut instinct was to come up with the same interpretation as yours, but reading p12 closely and following the logic of the diagrams (which have both the Pike turning 90 degrees to stay in support) means I changed my thought processes here...

P

This is a tough one isn’t it!

Thanks for all the suggestions and pointers to the critical passages. With 20/20 hindsight I think:

p10 says “elments contacted in the flank or rear by an enemy front edge turn to face the first enemy element to contact them unless already in full frontal edge contact.” So the first thing to happen would be that the rear rank turns to face the first contractors. See Fig 14d - the first enemy in contact has precedence. I think we are all agreed there.

Next question is whether the front rank turn because they are “providing support” to the rear rank that just turned OR do they then react to the front edge contact to their flank.

Rear support applies when elements have an element of the same type lined up directly behind them and facing in the same direction. This is no longer the case as the front rank were never facing backwards so we’re never supporting the rear rank. Paulisper - note this is the rear rank turning 180 degrees and not 90.....if that makes a difference.

So the front rank now need to turn to face the contact to their flank. See Fig 14a. So now the front rank must now turn to face the Aux BUT is is now unable to line up so must”move the minimum distance to allow the contracted elements to confirm” which moves it into the BG with the 3Ax sliding to conform.

So we have 2 combats 3Kn vs 4Pk in GG and no recoil and 3Ax vs 4Pk in BG. BUT would 3Kn vs hard flanked supported pike actually have been better for Ptolemy? Not sure!

.....or is this the correct solution? I’ve only had 48 hours to think about this and can still find different logics to apply.

P.S. Real credit goes to Martin and Atillathenun for working this out in real time and maintaining a sense of humour in what was a really fun game. Thanks guys!

I think all the relevant rules are here:
“Immediately after the movement phase, elements contacted to flank or rear by an enemy front edge turn to face the first enemy element to contact them unless they are already in full front edge contact with another enemy element or providing rear support. Any existing contacts are adjusted by moving the elements forward, back or the minimum distance sideways to maintain contact. If an element so contacts the flanks of two enemy elements, both these turn to face it if the first must, the second moving to behind the first.”

Nothing happens until all movement is done. Then the rear pike element turns to face the Kn. Then the first element of Pike turns to face the Ax. The problem occurs now with the second sentence, existing contacts adjusted.

Providing support must mean actively providing support, not potentially capable of providing support. The rule would apply to warband and Lighthorse And Pike. Do we think that a column of two light horse contacted on the rear will have combat against the front element by the element in contact to the rear? Or war band? If the war band were to win is the The enemy at the rear made to recoil and the Wb pursue, forward or does it turn around and pursue? All too weird.

There is no rule that says an attack on a two column rear results in both elements turning to face the rear attack. There is only an explicit statement of what happens when two elements are contacted on the flank.