Differentiating Cv vs. Kn

j2klbs,

There are a number of possibilities to differ Kn from Cv, decorative shield patterns vs. solid colour, coloured horse harness and saddle cloths vs. plain leather, darker coloured horse vs. lighter brown.

The late Dark Age or feudal period knights could have banners to set them apart from standard cavalry; mine are fixed to the base and not to the figure.

I have not seen an army where the 3Kn and 3Cv were not different, however that does not mean there are not some.
Timurilank is correct about banners.
If you do come across one where they are the same, and the 3Kn are not the General (so a banner will do) I would be interested to know.

David Constable

This is an interesting subject.
Figures with cloaks works well for Hellenistic-Macedonian 3Kn, with uncloaked mounted figures for the ordinary Cv.
But I myself am incredibly lazy when it comes to painting and basing, and am notorious for misusing figures, for example:-
I/36d Italian Hill Tribes (1000 BC - 290 BC): 10 x 3Ax/3Wb (using Oscan-Samnite figures)
I/36b Sardinians (700 BC - 124 BC): 8 x 3Ax ---> I/28 Sea Peoples (1208 BC - 1176 BC): 6 x 3Bd (both using horn helmeted figures)
I even use 2 x 4Wb to represent 2 x 4Ax when my II/33 Polybian Romans (275 BC - 105 BC) are fighting the II/11 Gauls (400 BC - 50 BC).
And of course there are the ‘Imitation Legionaries’ (Romans without helmet plumes) that pop up in various eastern armies.
(Also useful for telling the legionaries apart when fighting Roman civil wars)
My generic 'barbarians' are 4Wb made up of a mixture of Gauls/Britons/Germans (sod painting two armies when one will do for both!)

Here are some armies with interchangeable 3Kn-Cv Generals:-
    I/43b Skythians or Early Hu (400 BC -70 AD):    2 x 3Kn or Cv
    I/48 Thracians (700 BC - 46 AD):                      1 x 3Kn or Cv
    I/56b Late Kyreneans (313 BC - 74 BC):            1 x 3Kn or Cv
    II/6 Bithynians (435 BC - 74 BC):                      1 x 3Kn or Cv
    II/7 Later Persians (420 BC - 329 BC)                1 x 3Kn or Cv
    II/18e Antigonos Gonatas (277 BC - 260 BC):    1 x 3Kn or Cv
    II/20d Ptolemaic (53 BC - 30 BC):                     1 x 3Kn or Cv
    II/22a Nabataeans (250 BC - 106 AD):              1 x 3Kn or Cv
    II/25 Bosporans (310 BC - 375 AD):                  1 x 3Kn or Cv
    II/27b Pyrrhus (280 BC - 272 BC):                     1 x 3Kn or Cv
    II/81a Sub-Roman British (407 AD - 470 AD):     1 x 3Kn or Cv
(I just paint these up as 3Kn, and tell my opponent if they are being used as Cv or not)

And here are some non-General 3Kn-Cv elements:-
    II/14 Kappadokians (330 BC - 17 AD):                1 x 3Kn or Cv nobles
    II/20c Ptolemaic (166 BC - 54 BC):                     1 x 3Kn or Cv mercenaries
    II/24 Early Rhoxolani (310 BC - 100 AD):            3 x 3Kn or Cv nobles
    II/34 Pergamon (263 BC - 129 BC):                    2 x 3Kn or Cv lancers/Galatians
    II/47 Early Germans (115 BC - 250 AD):             2 x 3Kn if Suevi, 2 x Cv if other Germans
    II/82a West Patrician Rome (408 AD - 493 AD):   3 x 3Kn or Cv foederati/equites

...and this is only from Book II...I gave up searching before I reached Book III. 



Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018

Great minds stevie...

My Skyths and various others have mounted elements that swing both ways depending on which sub list is being fielded.

Unless both KN and CV are present in the same army there is often no real difference in the appearance of the miniatures. Essex for example includes their 'Breton' mailed figure with a kite shield as part of their Norman army's KN mix to add variety while also putting it in their Breton army pack as CV.

Since we use an even wider variety of Knight types this issue does come up a bit. Generally: No Barding but Lance & Mail - Fast Knight; Barding Lance/mail/some plate - Knight; Metal Barding full plate lance: Heavy Knight (counts as Foot v. Distance Shooting).

Besides figure representations (pretty easy to tell apart in 25mm), you can vary base depth. Traditionally in 25mm all Mounted were 40mm deep but now your officially allowed 45mm depth and unofficially 60mm. So you could put Faster/Looser types on deeper bases. I find 45mm about as shallow as modern 25s allow (and besides the Perry Brother's figures come with 60mmX45mm bases included for Mounted).

TomT

I use various ploys - for a lot of my Asian armies - Central Asian City States, Tang Chinese, Khitan Liao, Khazars the Kn have horse armour and the Cv do not

For my Norman army the Breton Cv have some figures throwing Javelins whilst the Norman Kn have all Lances (upright or levelled).

Cheers

Or you could put something on the banner of the Kn elements. A variation on the slogan of law firms perhaps

(One of the ambulance chaser firms here in Oz advertises on late night TV with the tagline "If you don't win, we don't charge" - the Kn could have the line "If we don't charge, you don't win!" )

Cheers