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Post by martin on Sept 25, 2018 7:33:15 GMT
Thanks Bill. See you all Saturday
Martin
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Post by pawsbill on Sept 26, 2018 22:44:56 GMT
Bill The new (Bournemouth) guy is asking what the end times might be. I'm a bit vague and lagged - with a 1pm start is the group stage usually done by (?) 5 / 5:30 or so (then final)? When does PAWS have their booking til? We aim to finish by 6 so group games hopefully done by 5:30 at the latest. OK, plan is this.
Arrive from 1pm, registration closes at 1:30 so draw can be made and 1st games start 1:40.
2 groups as usual with 5 rounds. winners of each group play a final.
Each round will last 45 minutes, including set up, from the previous round's end time, so game 1 ends 2:25, game 2 ends 3:10, game 3 ends 3:55, game 4 ends 4:40 and game 5 ends 5:25. If you and your next opponent end the previous game early, you can start early and get longer to play but all group games must end no later than the time specified.
Final to start as soon as possible after round 5 ends and we can work out the two group winners.
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Post by menacussecundus on Sept 29, 2018 21:27:59 GMT
Fourteen* participants and a fun theme. Terry was battling Arnaud in the final when I left. Thanks to Bill and the other PAWS members for hosting the event.
*Actually 16. Good job one only has to be able to count up to 12 to play DBA.
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Post by mustrum on Sept 29, 2018 21:37:55 GMT
I believe Arnaud won as he appeared at the station about 5 minutes after you left Denis!
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Post by cgothicus on Sept 29, 2018 21:52:16 GMT
Excellent theme chosen by Bill made for a fascinating tournament. Despite significant numbers of Knights, spears and pikes in attendance it was the bowmen that won the day. The final featured fifteen bow units! Followed by six psilio, two knights and an artillery piece ( I think those were the totals).
So congratulations to Arnaud and commiserations to Terry.
What theme next time Arnaud? Time for a South Seas, Pacific Rim competition?
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Post by colinthehittite on Sept 30, 2018 6:03:44 GMT
Would you believe it?
I took the same army as Claudius; selecting the same elements; dropping the same three in order to take the same ally and chose the same three ally elements! We even had to play each other and usually such games are dull, but this time we had an interesting tussle on one flank which proved quite exciting. At the end of the group round I topped my group on equal points with Arnaud and we were equal on all the other criteria for deciding the winner, including number of elements destroyed. Arnaud took fewer losses over the course of the tournament so we agreed he should go through to the final.
The final didn’t last long – a couple of bounds of massed shooting from two long lines facing each other followed by cavalry charging Psiloi in the open and it was all over.
I had some excellent games with the outcome often far from certain but the limited time available for games meant there were certain to be too many draws.
Well done Arnopov and thanks to everyone who contributed to the success of the afternoon, particularly those who painted figures especially for this unusual theme.
Colin
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Post by martin on Sept 30, 2018 6:04:53 GMT
A fine turnout of sixteen players for this one, plus one PAWS club member standing by to keep the numbers even (thanks Lindon). Two new faces....always good to see.. There were quite a few Sui armies in use, of which two were ‘b’ list (in all respects), with 50% of the army made up from degenerate low-grade militia (Hordes, so can be used with impunity). Additionally, I spotted three Koguryo Korean armies, some with Paekche allies, two bow-heavy early Emishi Japanese and two Central Asian Turkish. We played five games each in the group stage, with my aggressive Sui ‘million man army’ invading in a suitably historical fashion for the first four games, before a ‘home game’ in the last. They utilised a standard tactic of launching the expendable militia conscripts directly at the enemy centre to pin it, while my horsemen looked for advantage on one flank.
I faced the following:- 1. Colin the Hittite’s Koguryo + Paekche combination, on a battlefield constricted by steep hills, woods and a temple complex (‘edifice’). The Sui militia charged Colin’s centre, and succeeded in mowing down a couple of Korean militia pike blocks, while a skirmish ran to and fro over a difficult hill on the Sui right flank. Soon, however, the Koguryo cataphracts joined the fray and the Sui rapidly crumbled (a 4+5 x horde to 2 loss).
2. Arnopov’s earlier Sui, with massed bowmen, including pavisier (8Bw) elements and artillery support. Meeting on an open coastal plain, enemy archery proved significant, and cataphract charges knocked out many of my force before sunset brought the game to a close in a losing draw (2 + 4 x horde to 1 down).
3. Claudius Gothicus’s Koguryo/Paekche - I was blessed with a little more luck in this game, which saw 2/3 of my expendable militia slaughtered, but four of Richard’s elements destroyed, including his Paekche allies, giving a 4-1 (+4 x horde) win. None more surprised than me...
4. mustrum’s Sui; these gave me a good run for my money, with my general being unhorsed in the latter stages, ending on a score of 3 to 4G+ 3 x horde. More massed slaughter.
5. Finally, I defended vs Paul Clair, who used yet another Sui ‘a’ list force, with spearmen, archers and cataphracts. Terrain consisted of a coastline on my right, dotted with woodland and fishing villages, with flat arable areas inland. My archers contested the beachfront woods on my right, while the militia horde sacrificed themselves in the standard fashion in the centre. To my left my noble horsemen launched themselves upon the foe, and met with some successes, though time was called before the battle concluded, leaving me with a winning draw, despite the loss of throngs of militia.
It was an enjoyable day all round, with the Sui ‘b’ list rabble proving themselves both hard to win with and frustratingly difficult for their opponents to defeat. Great fun. menacussecumdus was playing in the other group to me, and had also brought the massed horde Sui, though a better painted version than mine (!). I’d love to hear how his army fared. Having to rush off to w*rk, I missed the final between Arnaud’s Sui and Terry’s Emishi. Looked like am interesting clash. Thanks to all at PAWS for a grand day out.
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Post by martin on Sept 30, 2018 6:05:38 GMT
....photo’s sometime later.
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Post by phippsy on Sept 30, 2018 10:31:45 GMT
Thanks to PAWS and Bill in particular for organising. The day went as expected with my Central Asian Turkish LH heavy Army invading in every battle except the last one, and coming up against Bw heavy armies.
First up was Russ with his Emeshi A with 10x3Bw (great). Martin advised before we started that it was Russ’ first competitive game. Well he played like he had been on the circuit for years. Came at me quickly and closed the space, using his woods as good Psiloi pinning locations. Russ deservedly got the better of a 2-2 + my two Horde draw.
Mark Skelton next with his variant of the Central Asian Turkish. Mark used his 3Bw element better than I did my Mtd-Bw, and shot some LH early and then applied a coup de grace when he caught two of my LH in the flank and lost the combat and battle 4-0.
Finalist Terry was then my opponent with more Ps heavy Emeshi A. Similar thread to previous battle with Russ as he came at me and closed the space. I was waiting to get some decent PIPs to fly off around the rear and then advance my mounted from their hiding position behind a gentle hill - but never quite happened. Terry deservedly winning 5-1 I recollect.
And now Bill (great) with his Koguro with Ally. Mixed cataphracts and 3pk with some mixed other elements. Actually made a better fist of this and deployed better, and got my Mtd-Bw involved. We were at 3-3, and I had an opportunity to win the game on a 3-1 combat against a flanked and overlapped blade, and I lost the combat, next bound Bill had a similar position, and also lost the combat, and we shook hands on 3-3 draw as the buzzer went.
And finally Dennis with his Sui Chinese B. After actually defending, I felt in a good position as I had got around the flank of the Hd heavy Sui, but again I got shot up by Dennis’ two 3Bw elements, and also did not win odds in my favour combats at a critical time, losing again 4-0.
As always enjoyable and instructive, so never stop learning. Key lessons were.
1. Mtd-Bw are foot when shot at by Bw who should have a factor of 2 and not 4.
2. If you do not have a camp follower element or figures depicted on them, then you cannot claim they are there inside a tent for example
3. A camp has a TZ, so one cannot double or triple move LH round the flank and sack an undefended camp. They have to stop outside the TZ and go through next time
4. Do not let Bw shoot with 3 elements at your LH. 4-0 is not healthy. Either avoid or charge from outside range or move into TZ range and gamble on surviving 4-2 shooting.
5. The terrain one is fighting in is not the terrain that the front edge is in but any part of the element is in. Upslope on hills is the front edge.
6. LH in 2 element column that in combat to front and flank contact lose both elements if beaten. (So be careful about leaving such flanks exposed when trying to get the +1 for the supporting LH element.
Roll on the next event....
Peter
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Post by menacussecundus on Sept 30, 2018 10:38:31 GMT
My games are largely a blur, Martin.
First up against Bill'S Koguryo Koreans. Lost the initial combats before the dice turned in my favour allowing me to scrape a 4-3 win.
Next game was against Terry's Emishi (6 Bw and 6 Ps). His Bw didn't manage to do much against the massed Hd and weren't able to get into range to take on my mounted without coming into the open (which he didn't want to do) so a 1-1 draw.
Mark's Central Asian Turks manoeuvred well (i.e. threw high for PIPs) swamping my left flank taking out some of the hd and pulling another out of position which allowed him to get into (and surround and kill) the mounted elements. All over very quickly.
Phil's early Sui invaded as far as the river which I had put down (and which ultimately proved to be a raging torrent). I tried some sniping with my Bw, but got the worse of the exchange, losing both elements. At that point, we established the state of the river. Neither of us was prepared to risk attempting to cross it so we agreed a draw. (2-0 to Phil.)
Final game against Peter's Central Asian Turks. His manoeuvering was less successful and my 2 Bw were able to combine their shooting on his LH killing 2 in successive bounds. He then charged home on the Bw killing one, but in the next bound my Kn General slid across to take the place of the Bw which had been destroyed and the other Bw element closed the door on the LH which was in column. I won the resulting combat and with it the game. (4-1)
The Hd were painted specially for the competition and, having read up a little, I went for a uniform look within each element. (Given that they were militia and that their clothing and equipment were provided by the regional authorities.) The rest of the army was drawn from my CACS army for which I used figures from an earlier Chinese range.
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Post by menacussecundus on Sept 30, 2018 10:53:03 GMT
............ As always enjoyable and instructive, so never stop learning. Key lessons were. ................ 2. If you do not have a camp follower element or figures depicted on them, then you cannot claim they are there inside a tent for example Despite the wording of the rules, quite a few people play it that you can, Peter. None of my camps has human figures on the base - and, obviously, I wouldn't want to argue that the invisible figures should be allowed to make a sortie - but it seems perverse to dictate the composition of a camp to this degree and to disadvantage those players who choose not to put figures on the base. (It's a little like insisting that Blade elements can only use figures carrying swords, axes, falx, etc.)
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Post by hodsopa on Sept 30, 2018 19:56:55 GMT
Thanks for all the battle reports, sounds like one of the best PAWS competitions, sorry I missed it (I was at a 60th birthday party with old old friends). It is great to hear that Terry's LH army did so well, I like LH and feel the rules could disfavour them less.
Looking forward to hearing Arnopov's December theme, I hope to make it then.
Paul H
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Post by menacussecundus on Sept 30, 2018 20:30:25 GMT
Terry's army was Emishi, Paul. 6 x Bw and 6 x Ps. No LH. Not even any mounted.
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Post by pawsbill on Sept 30, 2018 20:31:59 GMT
............ As always enjoyable and instructive, so never stop learning. Key lessons were. ................ 2. If you do not have a camp follower element or figures depicted on them, then you cannot claim they are there inside a tent for example Despite the wording of the rules, quite a few people play it that you can, Peter. None of my camps has human figures on the base - and, obviously, I wouldn't want to argue that the invisible figures should be allowed to make a sortie - but it seems perverse to dictate the composition of a camp to this degree and to disadvantage those players who choose not to put figures on the base. (It's a little like insisting that Blade elements can only use figures carrying swords, axes, falx, etc.) You don't have to have figures fixed on the camp base, just a camp follower element (and everyone must have a spare psiloi type element they could use).
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Post by pawsbill on Sept 30, 2018 20:33:40 GMT
Terry's army was Emishi, Paul. 6 x Bw and 6 x Ps. No LH. Not even any mounted. That's the Emishi "A" version.
The "B" version is almost all (and can be 12 elements of) LH.
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