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Post by felixs on Apr 3, 2018 17:48:28 GMT
Hello Gentlefolks,
while I am quite sure that Fast Auxilia (3Ax) is the stronger variation of Auxilia, I feel myself drawn to Solid Auxilia.
Auxilia is the only type of infantry that is not quick-killed by anything but Knights and then only in Good Going. +3 against everything is not bad. Plus you can move at a normal rate in Bad Going.
I have had quite a bit of success with Fast Auxilia armies. Thracians work quite well, as do Ancient Spanish.
The most 4Ax that I have at the moment is in the Later Carthaginian army, where it is likely to find itself in a line with the Spears quite often - a role for which more Spears would be better suited.
Securing Bad Going seems to be a typical role for Auxilia in DBA, but Fast Auxilia is much better at that. Maybe Solid Auxilia would be good to keep Warbands and other Auxilia at bay, especially if those are Fast.
I might get myself an Illyrian army, or something from Ancient Italy, just to try out a lot of 4Ax in action. Does anyone have experiences with that kind of army? It is unlikely to be strong, but is it fun?
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Post by Cromwell on Apr 4, 2018 8:05:32 GMT
I use solid Auxilia in my Early Imperial Roman army. They are also good for securing poor terrain but when fighting Ancient British I do not find that so important. But they are excellent for blunting warbands, I find my blades (Legionaries) can be easily defeated by warband. So my solid Auxilia blunt the attack before my blades go in for the kill.
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Post by lkmjbc on Apr 4, 2018 16:22:47 GMT
"Solid" Auxilia are also excellent against Mounted. They are +3 and recoil mounted on ties. They fill their role as a hinge between the heavy foot and the mounted quite well.
They do have an issue standing up against heavy foot in the open... but we are working on that.
Joe Collins
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Post by primuspilus on Apr 4, 2018 22:35:09 GMT
Get your Illyrians, felixs! I have an Illyrian army, and the difference between 3Ax and 4Ax becomes very noticable! When one side is mostly 3Ax and the other is mostly 4Ax, ties come up often. And the recoiling on ties works to advantage.
I for one do not find 3Ax so great. Their speed is not as much of an advantage is bad going since they can't do group moves. I like my house rule for Thracians (another group that is nerfed more under DBA 3): Thracian 3Ax can make group moves on difficult hills if they are fighting in Thrace (i.e. at home)... Do that when you play Thrace vs Illyria...
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Post by Antoine on Apr 5, 2018 12:40:42 GMT
I’m a huge fan of fast troops (my Gauls are 3Wb, celtiberian 3Bd are good), nonetheless, ties do come often (as said before) and recoiling Cv and fast Inf is good. IMHO, choosing 3Ax or 4Ax depends rather on how you like to play than on what you’re fighting. Solid Aux are too slow for me when it comes to exploiting gaps.
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Post by felixs on Apr 5, 2018 17:18:51 GMT
Thank you all!
For me, it is mostly about armies having a distinctive feel. Being a bit under-powered is ok. I assume that armies with lots of 4Ax are probably the weakest in the game.
As Antoine pointed out, 3Ax are quick and can exploit gaps and get into flanks easily. 4Ax cannot even do that.
But I feel myself drawn to under-performing armies, so that is fine.
As for the Illyrians, having read a bit more about them, I think that they are better represented as 3Ax. The Thracians seem a much better candidate for 4Ax. But my Thracian army (built of Museum Miniatures models) is clearly a mountain tribal one, so it should stay 3Ax.
Not easy to decide which army to get for lots of 4Ax. I really like the Etruscans as well, but they are about 200 years too early (or much too late) for anything else that I have. Hmm...
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Post by Antoine on Apr 5, 2018 18:05:10 GMT
You can go for Ancient Spanish: 6x 4Ax
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Post by felixs on Apr 5, 2018 18:25:36 GMT
My Ancient Spanish are built as 3Ax/3Wb. Unfortunately, Corvus Belli seems hard to get (or is it?) so unlikely that I will expand that army.
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Post by Antoine on Apr 5, 2018 19:29:49 GMT
« Forged in battle » have some good spanish scutarii & caetrati .
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Post by Haardrada on Apr 7, 2018 8:44:56 GMT
The few 4Ax I have are single elements used mainly as "hinges" to support heavier foot or minor roles like facing elephants,scythed chariots or Ps hunting...so they are quite useful but I would be reluctant to use them as a replacement in a battle-line as they are no match Bd or Sp and even Hd although even,get the push backs.
They do have a slight edge over Wb as they can better fend off mounted(except Kn).In a Cavalry supporting role the 4Ax don't deliver unless you slow your Mounted or rely on good timing.
However,I do agree with what has been said about 3Ax...they suffer the same disadvantages as 4Ax against other foot but are at a disadvatage to 4Wb,yet are far more flexible on the table.They are good in a supporting Cavalry roll (although vulnerable to Kns),so are rapid blockers and flankers.
I am interested in the success you mentioned with 4Ax armies...was it against Historical opponents?
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Post by felixs on Apr 8, 2018 21:25:48 GMT
I mentioned having quite a bit of success with using armies with a lot of 3Ax - namely Thracians and Ancient Spanish. The match-ups have been historical (I play little else these days) and mostly against Roman, Celtic and Greek armies. So lots of heavy foot, whose flanks are relatively easily exploited. Terrain is extremely important and the Thracian Light Horse is also quite useful (but requires very careful selection of terrain). The resilience of Ax against mounted also proved very useful. "Quite a bit of success" was perhaps a bit of an over-statement. I should have said that they fared much better than I would have expected, being quite respectable opponents.
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Post by Antoine on Apr 8, 2018 22:14:34 GMT
Thracians are one of the army I plan on doing soon The 3Ax version with lots of LH !
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Post by felixs on Apr 10, 2018 6:29:44 GMT
The Thracians with 3Ax are fun to use and they are quite good against historical opponents. They have more Light Horse than most (all?) others and they are much faster than most (all?) others. While there is little chance to win head-to-head encounters in open ground, it is not too difficult to play so that at least one enemy flank is constantly threatened.
It is this reliance on speed and brittleness in head-to-head encounters that I have experienced with 3Ax armies so far, that makes me believe that 4Ax armies will be challenging to play.
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Post by twrnz on Apr 17, 2018 0:40:14 GMT
When I take 3Ax are often think 4Ax would be useful. When I take 4Ax the loss of speed is so noticeable I think of the fast moving 3Ax. Each has its place, usually I’ve selected the wrong one!
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Post by greedo on Apr 17, 2018 3:46:47 GMT
Just jumping in here, would giving 4Ax side support from say Bd work? 3Ax wouldn't get this, as they are the fast, light terrain hopping guys, but the 4Ax (thinking Roman Aux) would be backup Legionaries, so would fight in a more similar way. Giving them side support would give you an incentive to fight in the front line, but they would still be weaker than Sp or Bd in a head to head?
Might be a bit too much, but if straight 4Ax armies aren't as good. Maybe the option is to take plenty of 3Ax with your 4Ax, and outflank...
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