Pre measure

I don't know about specifically saying you can or you cant but isn't there a bit about saying you can only take a move back if you measure the position you started in so in effect you get to measure.

Do you mean measuring to say I am putting my Knights 2UD and a smidgen from your blades so in your turn you cant get to em.

I actually prefer not pre-measuring in games, however games like DBA and Lart that are about really precise movements lend themselves to measuring in my umble opinion.

by “Pre-measure” I mean check various distances for an element before actually moving it, should I move my knight to attack that light horse, or those blades. Do I have the distance to do it. Let me just check each one. If you pick a shooting target for a bow, and discovered that the target is out of range, are you committed to still shoot, or can you pick another target. That is can you pre-measure the first target before committing to shoot?

thanks

Sue Laflin-Barker's book Start Ancient Wargaming with DBA 3.0, Chapter 5: De Bellis Antiquitatis Rules version 3.0, Section 5.7 Fighting the Battle, under Tactical Moves.

"A legal tactical move cannot be taken back once the element has been placed unless the initial position was marked and the opponent consents".

It says it all right there. The two people playing DBA should discuss this but they both must consent to allow this. The problem might be competition rules that don't call this out. 

I vaguely remember this being discussed in a playtest exchange but it may been for DBMM session.

I think Phil ended up being convinced that pre-measure was the best course of action esp in tournament games. Not possible in real world but then again in the real world troops can briefly dash forward and so speed up to close if needed.

TomT

Scott, I know what I know because I have played the game for 25 years But, what happens when a newbie asks me how I know that "Any distance can be measured whenever a player wishes."

Indeed, moves can be taken back, but as noted, if opponent agrees. It is much easier to measure a move first, before actually picking up the element and putting it in the new position, that was estimated visually without measurement. Opponent can challenge the move and discover that the distance exceeds the allowed distance, so with no position marker, and disagreement by opponent, the element is stuck in its new position, short of contact.

I will ask for an FAQ ruling on this to include the 2.2 wording.

There are many occasions in a game where both players want to check on distances before moving, but this is not sanctioned in the current rules. Saying that if it is not forbidden, it must be allowed is not really sufficient. Someone else might contend that if it not mentioned, it is not allowed. I suspect that most gamers, in general. do not think they can measure whenever they wish.

bob, I've played many DBA games over 20 or so years, both friendly and competition, and pre-measuring happened in all of them.

Steve

I think Pawsbill is referring to the “Sequence of Play” rules on page 8 paragraph 4:-
“(3) Any Artillery, War Wagons or Bow elements of both sides that are eligible to do so, must shoot once each…”

So you can’t decide that a shooter will not shoot this bound…they have to shoot at something, if they can.
This means pre-measuring before they roll their shooting die, to make sure the declared target is actually in range.

But getting back to Bob’s original question: I think that pre-measuring is inevitable in a system like DBA.

Take deployment for example.
Before you place any element on the battlefield you must pre-measure to make sure it is the correct distance from the table centre-line and side-edges, and is at least 1 BW from an enemy city or fort (see FAQ).

Then there is the reason for having “Barker Marker’s” (see the last sentence on page 2 paragraph 10).
What’s the point of having these if not for pre-measurement purposes?

Lastly, there is the question of Command Distance (page 8 paragraph 7).
If my general is on the far right of my battleline, and I want to move an element on my far left, I have to first pre-measure to ensure that the element is within the Command Range of my general for PIP cost purposes.
If it’s out of Command Range, do I have enough PIPs to even make it move?

Now, you could draw up a list of all those things that can or can’t be pre-measured…but that would be very awkward.
So all-in-all I’d say that pre-measurement is not only permissible, it’s absolutely vital to make the DBA system work correctly.



Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018