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Post by colinthehittite on Mar 26, 2018 12:46:57 GMT
I wondered if you two sneaky trick masters would want to hear about that.
Well, are you sitting comfortably...
The great commanders of antiquity worked hard to mask their intentions from their opponents - I’m reminded of Hannibal as I’m painting Carthaginians at the moment – because deceiving your opponent as to your intentions would often lead to battlefield success. We DBA gamers try in some small measure to emulate the actions of these great commanders on the table top; but since both players can see every element and every terrain feature and the relationship between these, it is very difficult to engineer a situation where you can fool your opponent. However, little ‘tricks’ on the table top can lead to local advantage and we all know how quickly such an advantage can bring about victory in DBA.
In my DBA gaming the ultimate prize is to deceive my opponent, to mask my intentions and successfully attack at a point he feels is secure. I have learnt a number of tricks over time from The Master but if, Martin, after reading what follows you feel that I have besmirched your good name then I apologise. Neither of us would cheat in a game, but you may feel I was a little ungentlemanly.
My Trojans (littoral) won the terrain against Bill’s Shang and having placed 12 elements on the table I was pondering my deployment. Bill said, ‘No littoral landing then.’ I said, ‘Oh yeah! I can land...’ I had completely forgotten and was playing as badly as I had done against Atillathenun the other night. I then removed two dismounted blades and a fast blade and placed them on the side in full view, leaving 9 elements deployed on the table – an obvious indication of a proposed landing. The act of removing 2 dismounted blades and a fast blade and leaving them in full view put into Bill’s mind that those exact elements were to be the landing. I had inadvertently deceived Bill. Ordinarily 9 elements would be brought out of the box and deployed. Bill would have noticed some missing and if he couldn’t work out what they were I would happily show him. The two dismounted blades sitting on the side distracted Bill from his tactical thinking – it was not intentional but proved decisive.
Bill then set up his Shang with a standard line but with two Psiloi touching the waterway behind his line as partial beach defence. Instead of landing the two dismounted blades and fast blade I landed two light chariots and a fast blade, one in contact with a psiloi and the line extended inland. Bill’s psiloi were expecting blades (no problem) but one of them was now in contact with a light chariot and looking somewhat queasy, as was his friend nearby... The psiloi was destroyed and Bill was on the back foot throughout the game. Sneaky or what!
Perhaps, Martin, you would have done differently being the kindly soul that you are. However, it was all perfectly legal. The good prospect of a win was enjoyable after having lost my first game to Claudius’ Sea Peoples on 3-4, including both generals, followed by a draw against Andrew’s Sea Peoples, although Bill was looking a little unhappy.
I did feel a little guilty, but I didn’t say I was going to land with just infantry, in fact I didn’t say anything other than that I had finished deploying. Perhaps I should have put the landers in my box in order not to distract Bill and I only decided to land with chariots when I saw the opposition behind Bill’s line.
Bill, my intention was not to be underhand. You can get your own back in two weeks at the excellent Alton DBA Matched Pairs.
Colin
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Post by timurilank on Mar 26, 2018 13:11:48 GMT
Pure evil, but nice. A ploy that would bring a smile to Kydoimos. |
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Post by martin on Mar 26, 2018 14:53:12 GMT
A slight of hand, worthy, Colin, of any card sharp 👍👍👍👍👍...True dexterity 😊. I MUST remember that one. A distinctly clever trick, as the opponent is the one who makes the assumption.
‘Back in the day’ of v2.2, when one could hold off a single element for a landing, the sheer floor area coverage of four Mycenaean chariots on 40x40 bases could often mislead the opponent into not counting, and missing the fact that only 11 elements were on the board. Nowadays with two or three held back it’s a tad more obvious..... How Richard and I resisted the temptation to land in our last game I’ll never know...... This idea gives those Mycenaean dismounters a little more zing, now the in-game dismount is a bit restrictive.
M
and no offence taken....I’m known for deception, as Arnopov will testify ....’the sneaky Mr Smith’, I think he calls me :-)
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Post by peteduckworth on Mar 26, 2018 16:02:10 GMT
Six fun games of DBA v3 at the Portsmouth PAWS DBA on Saturday. I used Sea Peoples, curse of the civilisations of the eastern Med.... Thanks for the excellent reports Martin. Its just like being there but without the stress and the driving hassles! This confirms my suspicion as to the super-troop status of 3 Blade. Maybe we could Auxilia a Quick Kill against them to restore some balance? Well done Richard - you are on a roll! |
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Post by martin on Mar 26, 2018 17:21:22 GMT
Well, supertroops SOMETIMES......when I lost three x 3Bd in bound 1 vs Mark’s Minoan HCh landing they didn’t feel so super*
Martin
* reminds me of an XTC lyric....earworm alert, earworm alert....that’s me working through the night with the song in my head...!!!
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Post by Haardrada on Mar 26, 2018 19:20:13 GMT
Are there any photos circulating of the games?
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Post by paulisper on Mar 26, 2018 20:36:54 GMT
My Trojans (littoral) won the terrain against Bill’s Shang and having placed 12 elements on the table I was pondering my deployment. Bill said, ‘No littoral landing then.’ I said, ‘Oh yeah! I can land...’ I had completely forgotten and was playing as badly as I had done against Atillathenun the other night. I then removed two dismounted blades and a fast blade and placed them on the side in full view, leaving 9 elements deployed on the table – an obvious indication of a proposed landing. The act of removing 2 dismounted blades and a fast blade and leaving them in full view put into Bill’s mind that those exact elements were to be the landing. I had inadvertently deceived Bill. Ordinarily 9 elements would be brought out of the box and deployed. Bill would have noticed some missing and if he couldn’t work out what they were I would happily show him. The two dismounted blades sitting on the side distracted Bill from his tactical thinking – it was not intentional but proved decisive. Bill then set up his Shang with a standard line but with two Psiloi touching the waterway behind his line as partial beach defence. Instead of landing the two dismounted blades and fast blade I landed two light chariots and a fast blade, one in contact with a psiloi and the line extended inland. Bill’s psiloi were expecting blades (no problem) but one of them was now in contact with a light chariot and looking somewhat queasy, as was his friend nearby... The psiloi was destroyed and Bill was on the back foot throughout the game. Sneaky or what! I did feel a little guilty, but I didn’t say I was going to land with just infantry, in fact I didn’t say anything other than that I had finished deploying. Perhaps I should have put the landers in my box in order not to distract Bill and I only decided to land with chariots when I saw the opposition behind Bill’s line. Bill, my intention was not to be underhand. You can get your own back in two weeks at the excellent Alton DBA Matched Pairs. Colin Jeez...that was mighty cheesy. I think, having just given you a get out clause to rework your deployment (and I'm not sure I would have let you do that anyway, if you'd declared you'd finished your deployment), that was pretty frickin' naughty... If I was Bill, I would have had words over that one...  P. |
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Post by Haardrada on Mar 26, 2018 21:28:48 GMT
I wondered if you two sneaky trick masters would want to hear about that. Well, are you sitting comfortably... The great commanders of antiquity worked hard to mask their intentions from their opponents - I’m reminded of Hannibal as I’m painting Carthaginians at the moment – because deceiving your opponent as to your intentions would often lead to battlefield success. We DBA gamers try in some small measure to emulate the actions of these great commanders on the table top; but since both players can see every element and every terrain feature and the relationship between these, it is very difficult to engineer a situation where you can fool your opponent. However, little ‘tricks’ on the table top can lead to local advantage and we all know how quickly such an advantage can bring about victory in DBA. In my DBA gaming the ultimate prize is to deceive my opponent, to mask my intentions and successfully attack at a point he feels is secure. I have learnt a number of tricks over time from The Master but if, Martin, after reading what follows you feel that I have besmirched your good name then I apologise. Neither of us would cheat in a game, but you may feel I was a little ungentlemanly. My Trojans (littoral) won the terrain against Bill’s Shang and having placed 12 elements on the table I was pondering my deployment. Bill said, ‘No littoral landing then.’ I said, ‘Oh yeah! I can land...’ I had completely forgotten and was playing as badly as I had done against Atillathenun the other night. I then removed two dismounted blades and a fast blade and placed them on the side in full view, leaving 9 elements deployed on the table – an obvious indication of a proposed landing. The act of removing 2 dismounted blades and a fast blade and leaving them in full view put into Bill’s mind that those exact elements were to be the landing. I had inadvertently deceived Bill. Ordinarily 9 elements would be brought out of the box and deployed. Bill would have noticed some missing and if he couldn’t work out what they were I would happily show him. The two dismounted blades sitting on the side distracted Bill from his tactical thinking – it was not intentional but proved decisive. Bill then set up his Shang with a standard line but with two Psiloi touching the waterway behind his line as partial beach defence. Instead of landing the two dismounted blades and fast blade I landed two light chariots and a fast blade, one in contact with a psiloi and the line extended inland. Bill’s psiloi were expecting blades (no problem) but one of them was now in contact with a light chariot and looking somewhat queasy, as was his friend nearby... The psiloi was destroyed and Bill was on the back foot throughout the game. Sneaky or what! Perhaps, Martin, you would have done differently being the kindly soul that you are. However, it was all perfectly legal. The good prospect of a win was enjoyable after having lost my first game to Claudius’ Sea Peoples on 3-4, including both generals, followed by a draw against Andrew’s Sea Peoples, although Bill was looking a little unhappy. I did feel a little guilty, but I didn’t say I was going to land with just infantry, in fact I didn’t say anything other than that I had finished deploying. Perhaps I should have put the landers in my box in order not to distract Bill and I only decided to land with chariots when I saw the opposition behind Bill’s line. Bill, my intention was not to be underhand. You can get your own back in two weeks at the excellent Alton DBA Matched Pairs. Colin I was going to keep quiet and say nothing but I am going to give an opinion...in no way am I making an issue of things as gaming is and should be above all friendly and conducted in a fair and friendly way...from your account you never intended to be dishonest nor underhand in any way and did not break any rules.However,what troubles me is that you placed 12 elements on the table that you intended to use so in a way had already indicated to your opponent that you had selected the dismounted option of that troop type..if the 3 elements had remained in the box then it was still optional which choice you could play..though I think some competition organisers request this information before deployment? Nevertheless the game was played in good spirits and thats how it should be. Please do not think for one momment I am being overly critical as I said it is only my opinion. |
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Post by pawsbill on Mar 26, 2018 22:21:12 GMT
Bill, my intention was not to be underhand. You can get your own back in two weeks at the excellent Alton DBA Matched Pairs. Colin I know. I don't even think you realised what you had done until you did it. |
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Post by colinthehittite on Mar 27, 2018 7:41:07 GMT
My Trojans (littoral) won the terrain against Bill’s Shang and having placed 12 elements on the table I was pondering my deployment. Bill said, ‘No littoral landing then.’ I said, ‘Oh yeah! I can land...’ I had completely forgotten and was playing as badly as I had done against Atillathenun the other night. I then removed two dismounted blades and a fast blade and placed them on the side in full view, leaving 9 elements deployed on the table – an obvious indication of a proposed landing. The act of removing 2 dismounted blades and a fast blade and leaving them in full view put into Bill’s mind that those exact elements were to be the landing. I had inadvertently deceived Bill. Ordinarily 9 elements would be brought out of the box and deployed. Bill would have noticed some missing and if he couldn’t work out what they were I would happily show him. The two dismounted blades sitting on the side distracted Bill from his tactical thinking – it was not intentional but proved decisive. Bill then set up his Shang with a standard line but with two Psiloi touching the waterway behind his line as partial beach defence. Instead of landing the two dismounted blades and fast blade I landed two light chariots and a fast blade, one in contact with a psiloi and the line extended inland. Bill’s psiloi were expecting blades (no problem) but one of them was now in contact with a light chariot and looking somewhat queasy, as was his friend nearby... The psiloi was destroyed and Bill was on the back foot throughout the game. Sneaky or what! I did feel a little guilty, but I didn’t say I was going to land with just infantry, in fact I didn’t say anything other than that I had finished deploying. Perhaps I should have put the landers in my box in order not to distract Bill and I only decided to land with chariots when I saw the opposition behind Bill’s line. Bill, my intention was not to be underhand. You can get your own back in two weeks at the excellent Alton DBA Matched Pairs. Colin Jeez...that was mighty cheesy. I think, having just given you a get out clause to rework your deployment (and I'm not sure I would have let you do that anyway, if you'd declared you'd finished your deployment), that was pretty frickin' naughty... If I was Bill, I would have had words over that one... P. In my defence, Your Honour, I had not declared that I had deployed. I had put 12 elements on the table and was staring at them with my head between my hands looking for inspiration. Bill provided it! Am I still allowed to play at Newark  Colin |
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Post by martin on Mar 27, 2018 9:00:58 GMT
Are there any photos circulating of the games? Will be.... just home from three days at work, so maybe p.m. (??). Martin |
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Post by martin on Mar 27, 2018 13:50:46 GMT
A bunch of photo's from the event are now on the DBA Yahoo group. Will try to post some here later.........
M
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Post by paulisper on Mar 27, 2018 14:41:31 GMT
Jeez...that was mighty cheesy. I think, having just given you a get out clause to rework your deployment (and I'm not sure I would have let you do that anyway, if you'd declared you'd finished your deployment), that was pretty frickin' naughty... If I was Bill, I would have had words over that one... P. In my defence, Your Honour, I had not declared that I had deployed. I had put 12 elements on the table and was staring at them with my head between my hands looking for inspiration. Bill provided it! Am I still allowed to play at Newark Colin Hold on, Mr Accused, you stated in your earlier post 'I did feel a little guilty, but I didn’t say I was going to land with just infantry, in fact I didn’t say anything other than that I had finished deploying.' Are you saying now that you had not declared you had deployed? Well, what is to be, man.... out with the truth, now!!!!
You can still play at Newark, but I'll be watching your antics like a hawk  
P.
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Post by colinthehittite on Mar 27, 2018 15:11:03 GMT
Yes, m’lud and thank you, Your Gloriousness.
Thanks for posting the photos, Martin. See what I mean about the presentation?
Colin
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Post by martin on Mar 27, 2018 16:22:21 GMT
Oli's Shang Chinese
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